Bear Clan Theme Hour

From FiranMUX

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Hi, everyone. I'm Amber (or a small potato masquerading under the name Amber), and I'll be leading your theme hour tonight. *waves*"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Tonight is the first Theme Hour on a Firan clan. Each clan is getting one, so we can discuss them in depth. One of the reasons I wanted to do clan discussions is that I find, at one time or another, negative stereotypes have circulated about all the clans, which tends to lose them characters and hurt RP. And that's not fair, because although all the clans are different and their cultural differences spark RP, they're all cool and worthy of being played."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "We're going to follow my incredibly complex Theme Hour format here, which means I'm going to give us three or four paragraphs of general background information, and I (and other wizzies and possibly PHers hanging about) will field questions for about an hour or two, or whenever I keel over and cannot type any more."

[Public] Marthin props Amber up.

[Public] Orfi will log again

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "So to begin with -- the first clan in alphabetical order. The Bear clan. The Bears consider themselves the civilizers of the Firan realms. They don't necessarily dislike stuff that is messy, savage or impolite, but they're not talked about in polite company. They believe in manners and restraint -- I always think of them as being rather English in demeanour. The stiff upper lip, emotions are not for public, sort of thing. They admire cleverness, subtlety and wit. They're renowned -- or reviled -- for being sarcastic. They're famous for their spies. They're patrons of the arts. They're not big believers in physical violence, because they think you should fight with your mind, not with your hands. Hitting people is cheating."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "There's one thing I want to address in particular because it's often misunderstood -- yes, the Bears are a matriarchy. But they're not a female version of the Gold Dragons or Hydras. They aren't brutish women keeping men underfoot. Instead they have some very defined gender roles. They don't think men are suitable for leadership -- they're too volatile, too distracted by fleshy matters. Instead they believe only women have the level heads required for political leadership, and that men should serve as protectors. It's natural and common for Bear men to be great soldiers and military leaders. However, with a few notable exceptions, the Bears will not accept them as political leaders. They will generally be treated with more suspicion in non-military-related posts than a woman would be."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Furthermore, because the Bears have such a confined idea of what a woman should be, although a Bear woman is expected to be a leader and person of importance, they generally have to ascribe to a certain image to do so -- they essentially exchange certain freedoms for power. Bear women are leaders, ministers, judges, warriors, and so on -- but if they run around in tunics and their hair loose, no one's going to take them seriously, Although a Bear woman being a warrior isn't the most favoured profession -- see above about fighting with your mind, not with your hands -- it's perfectly accepted, but she should be a lady when not in armour!"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "A few notes on Bear history before we move to discussion. They're a middle-aged clan -- they are a Summan clan, with close blood ties to the Hydra. Although (pre-Nelabam-annexation) they did not have a lot of land, they are one of the biggest clans, population-wise, mostly because they believe in large families and peace. And although the Ista Aldrik _name_ is recent -- Clan Leader Aldrik, the mother of Queen Sabine, was the one to first assume it -- the same family has led the clan for a very long time, and they have a reputation, deserved or not, for being the sneakiest of the sneaky, the properest of the proper, and the iciest of the icy."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "And we will now move into question period."

[Public] Fiero says, "I heard through the grapevine that someone without Ista Aldrik blood could never sit as proxy without upsetting the NPCS, why is that?"

[Public] Nimizo says, "Taleo was proxy and regent for a long time wasn't he?"

[Public] Fiero says, "I didn't say it didn't happen, I just heard that when it did happen, it upset the NPCS"

[Public] Umaish says, "yes he was."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Taleo was proxy for a time, but the clan was always very very uneasy with his leadership. Because a) he wasn't an Ista Aldrik and b) he was a man."

[Public] Fiero says, "Aside from Taleo. Say an upstanding Bear woman, without Ista Aldrik blood."

[Public] Orfi says, "With the Bears being matriarchial, has there ever been a movement to make it matrialinear?"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "And just why haven't the men revolted? :P"

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Aldrik's father was clan leader for the Bears. Is this matriarchy thing new? Or was he speshul?"

[Public] Nimizo says, "Honestly Javier most of us bear men are happy to let the women have tea and politics"

[Public] Nimizo says, "while we have war and whores. This is at least my impression"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "It's the same for any clan, Fiero. If someone who is not in the royal family is selected when there are suitable members of the royal family available, the NPCs will likely not be happy. It looks badly on the leader for snubbing the family, and it looks badly on the family members for being snubbed."

[Public] Do Not Upset Mr. Bigglesworth Ronti raises his hand. "Ronti Garkansen from the Firan Onion. With the recent promotion of Fidelia to Clan Leader status, is it safe to assume that the Bear population thinks the envoy to Vreland is dead?"

[Public] Kelarik mumbles. Ronti stole my question.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Firan clans aren't patrilinear either, so there really isn't a movement for them being matrilinear. Even the clans that are dominated by one gender let inheritance trace down both sides."

[Public] Fiero says, "I understand that. A few people were just discussing hopelessly inactive Proxies, and it was mentioned that they were never replaced with active PC's because of the blood thing. So I was curious if that was true or not."

[Public] Riven says, "My question is - Are class stratifications more rigid in the Bear clan than in other clans?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Most people don't know this, but the founder of the Gold Dragon clan was a woman."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "As for Aldrik's father, you'd have to ask Steph for specifics on that one, but it's my understanding that, yes, he was a special and unusual case."

[Public] Orfi says, "Clan Leader Nestra... but that's another discussion"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber pokes Akiva. Save it for the GD discussion. :)

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Lets not go girl-power on this tonight, Akiva? ;)"

[Public] Joey has joined this channel.

[Public] Fiero says, "That's a good question, Riven"

[Public] Jalil has joined this channel.

[Public] Nimizo says, "it is Riven!"

[Public] Nimizo thinks like 90% of the middle class families in the bear clan are servant families.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "It's going to vary a little from clan to clan and situation to situation, Fiero, and whether or not the clan leaders want to take the risk of the social hit is up to them, but, yes, it's true."

[Public] Nimizo says, "from what I've seen of the Pcs"

[Public] Fiero nods, "Thanks for clearing that up, Amber. :)

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "I noticed once on Trade that every GD 'want' is produced by the Bear Clan. Is there some signifigance to this?"

[Public] Orfi says, "How is it the Bear cornered the market on both Elianosite and raw silk?"

[Public] Riven says, "I'm curious about the social stratification of the Bear clan, especially as relates to the relationships between nobles and non-nobles."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "And, Riven, the Bears really respect class. They have an attitude that everyone has their place and every place needs to be filled for society to function. That doesn't mean they don't social climb, but they're very respectful to their betters, for instance, and they try to be subtle about social climbing."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "All wants overlap, Audentus. If there is any significance in it, it's simply that we gave wants for a big clan to a clan with the population to fill it."

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Nestra wasn't the founder of the GD clan, she was the founder of the Griffon clan, by kicking her husband out of the GD clan so he could form the Griffon clan."

[Public] Fiero says, "What generally happens when one of lower class is not respectful? Do the Higher class use social pressure, or something else?"

[Public] Riven says, "Is it sort of like the British just pre world war I?"

[Public] Jalil says, "The records are sketchy on that, Vasyklo. Some GDs claim Nestra was never clan leader at all."

[Public] Jalil says, "At least, that is my understanding."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "And I think the trade system is getting overhauled . . . at least I hope it is. :P"

[Public] Vasyklo says, "It was on the website somewhere, in the timeline. And it's researchable. Maybe I botched though, heehee!"

[Public] Akiva says, "Fiero, I think it's a subtle social pressure. The person who's disrespectful gets tsked at, perhaps, and people think less of them, and are less likely to patronize their business or hire them for tasks, etc. It isn't like Bears throw rocks at people. They just...absent themselves. It's like if you invite twenty Bears to your birthday party, and you've been socially rude in the past? One will show up to give you a lackluster card and then claim they have to leave early to get their hair done."

[Public] Akiva says, "And the rest won't show at all."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber grins at Akiva.

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Then Akiva will cut your throat in your sleep."

[Public] Ladonna says, "Poisoned hairpins, really now."

[Public] Fiero says, "Right but I meant if a servant was rude to a Noble, they just get tsked at?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Icy Look of Doom!"

[Public] Akiva says, "Though I tend to arch my eyebrow."

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Does Taleo know about these rules? He doesn't tisk at people."

[Public] Akiva says, "Taleo delegates the tsking to other people."

[Public] Fiero says, "That's why he's Viceroy ;)"

[Public] Akiva says, "Trust me on this. The messages I get. Oy."

[Public] Kelarik says, "Question: At one point, I seem to recall that the Bear clan was actually vaguely considered a 'party' clan (or at least segments of it were). Now, it appears that even the men have bowed to the tea and cakes viewpoint on matters. How 'accurate' is that in terms of thematic material - do Bears really only drink tea?"

[Public] Riven says, "I've seen 'em with whiskey."

[Public] Nimizo does NOT drink tea.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "As for the silk and elianosite question, the Bears do not have the market on raw silk. Raw silk comes from the Bonduins. The Bears are the only clan who mass-produce silk cloth, just as only some clans have a dairy industry and whatnot. As for elianosite, I'm not sure the Bears produced it before they took Nelabam, which is a mining town."

[Public] Akiva says, "Bear -men- drink anything they want."

[Public] Furen says, "Especially the Kamnestrans."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Bear men play hard. As long as they're polite to ladies, they'll do whatever on their own time."

[Public] Akiva says, "Bear women tend to drink tea, or sometimes wine at special occasions, but are rarely seen to be drunk."

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Amber, I swear I @requested on Bonduins, and you wizardfolk said the Bonduins were all gone and that news file was wrong, and Bears are the only ones who make silk at all."

[Public] Akiva says, "And when they play hard, they play hard. Taleo Teranzik: Legendary Seducer."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Tea is a favoured drink, but that doesn't mean they don't drink anything else. Hard liquor isn't ladylike, but wine is fine, and drunkeness is impolite."

[Public] Winnie The Pooh Dar has joined this channel.

[Public] Kelarik nods. Cool cool. That's what I /thought/ the case was, but wasn't sure.

[Public] Riven says, "What kinds of social pressure are placed on Bears who do not marry or produce large families?"

[Public] Riven says, "I gather large families are the norm."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "You'll be looked at funny and your family will nag you. :)"

[Public] Nimizo says, "They are. The bear clan also widely encourages adoption."

[Public] Akiva says, "I think it's more like pity than condemnation. Like, "Poor dear, they don't have the support structure a person needs to be successful, I should bake them a pie and introduce him to my granddaughter...""

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Wasn't Willona a Bear, or have I lost my mind?"

[Public] Orfi says, "Trice, Audentus"

[Public] Orfi says, "Nevra was a Bear at first"

[Public] Akiva says, "She was kind of weird for a noblewoman of any clan. But fun."

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Ah ok. Thanks."

[Public] Orfi says, "er, no wait... Trice again... ignore me ;)"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "No, Nevra was first a Cockatrice."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "The Bonduins are not all gone. But they exist in very scattered and very small populations and are very infrequent visitors to the Firan lands, hence the rarity of silk."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Nevra was a Cockatrice, then a Chimera, then a Bear, then a Ticanee, and then a dead Bear."

[Public] Akiva says, "Born common, too."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Which occupatinos are most 'common' for Bears and how is the Noble/Sponsor relationship done in that neck of the woods?"

[Public] Riven says, "Do Bears generally marry for love or are many of the marriages arranged by heads of household? (for commoners, that is. I assume nobles are planned)"

[Public] Umaish says, "even if the NPCs didn't think so for a while :)"

[Public] Dinesh is proud of that girl.. Surely that's a record of some sort ;)

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "A little of each, Riven. They're not a strictly arranged marriage like the Cockatrice, and love-matches are fine as long as you fall in love with someone suitable. However, like in all clans, HoHs do a certain amount of arranging marriages."

[Public] Riven has to commute home. If, when I return it's still going, I apologize if I ask anything already asked before.

[Public] Ladonna will throw you a log, Riven.

[Public] Akiva says, "For noble-commoner relations, it's stratified and very formal, but Bear nobles are seen to have a deep duty to be good patrons to their sponsorees. It's part of "noblesse oblige", the obligations of the class. Bears take that sort of thing very seriously."

[Public] Akiva says, "So you wouldn't go drinking with your sponsoree, but you'd make sure they didn't have trouble with their landlord and that they could get financing to fix their broken roof after an air raid."

[Public] Adan considers. "What do you think is a flaw of the Bears? Since we've talked a lot about their merits."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber nods to Akiva. Noblesse oblige is a very Bear concept. You take care of your servants/sponsors, and they take care of you.

[Public] Akiva says, "Pride."

[Public] Akiva says, "And perhaps a dangerous tendency to hang back and wait. Which has worked out for them in the past, but it's possible to be -too- cautious."

[Public] Akiva says, "Oh, and they're breeding themselves into starvation. ;)"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier starts putting up a fence at the Hydra/Bear boarder . . . and a moat, filled with crocodiles, and a drawbridge!

[Public] Umaish says, "however some don't wait long enough or such...."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Pride. Sarcasm. They're often reserved or repressed, because they work so hard not showing emotions publicly. And although they can be very compassionate toward the less fortunate, they sometimes have a sort of 'white man's burden' attitude toward those they think less fortunate. 'Oh, it's our duty to civilize the poor dears and take care of them, but we're better than them and we don't /touch/ them.' ;)"

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "What is a Bear weakness? Because they seem to be able to move away from their trends pretty well. I mean, imagine if a GD or Hydran woman was named Viceroy like Taleo was? Or likewise a GD or Hydran woman because a military officer like Zelva was/is(?)"

[Public] Akiva nods to Amber. "Repressing one's emotions all the time can lead to some very weird neuroses."

[Public] Winnie The Pooh Dar says, "Hence why all Bears should have sanity 0-2"

[Public] Akiva says, "By their nature, Bears try to sit in the middle of conflicts, keeping things from flying off the handle. They're large, slow moving, and act as a counterweight to flashier and more intemperate clans."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "The Gold Dragons tend to be a volatile clan. Bears are not. Riots are rude, after all."

[Public] Umaish says, "well there have been GD and Hydran women that attempted to join the military some with worse results than others...."

[Public] Fiero says, "Would you consider their obsession with tradition a weakness?"

[Public] Akiva says, "But they don't have as many heroes."

[Public] Akiva says, "I wouldn't call them bold or daring, at least as a peoplel."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "They're resourceful and level-headed, though."

[Public] Akiva says, "Really, I'd think a Bear weakness was being a bit dull, to be perfectly honest. ;) We're the sane, boring, stable clan."

[Public] Akiva says, "We knit our socks and stay out of trouble."

[Public] Arik says, "Akiva didn't you slaughter a city or something?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Or rather, that's what we _want_ from our leaders."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber doesn't really think in terms of flaws or good points. I see them as having different qualities, and it's up to you if you want to see them as good or bad.

[Public] Akiva says, "Oh god. We're Canadian."

[Public] Winnie The Pooh Dar laughs.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber grins at Akiva. But you forgot the sardonic wit and the obsession with being sneaky.

[Public] Akiva says, "Well, there's that."

[Public] Akiva says, "We're obsessed with being sneaky because it's the only way we can sit around knitting our socks without getting conquered."

[Public] Akiva searches her pockets for bugged Nelanosian stenis.

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "So obviously they don't mind male leadership anymore right? Since Taleo and Xegolus? I mean, that sort of shoots down their female-dominated leadership concept."

[Public] Fiero says, "Taleo did a hell of a lot for the Bear Clan"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "They mind it. They'll tolerate it, but they won't like it."

[Public] Fiero says, "They liked getting a city!"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Taleo managed to stay in power because he worked himself to the bone trying to keep the clan happy. He got out of there as soon as he could."

[Public] Arik says, "I think usually the bears prefer when there is a male leader that there be a stronger female leader with him by the...uhh stenis? :)"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "And Xegolus was a military leader."

[Public] General Specific Nicole says, "It's perfectly okay for men to be military leaders. :)"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Are most of the Bear Military Leaders men?"

[Public] Akiva says, "And really, if Taleo wasn't insanely popular for other things, I doubt he'd be as well-regarded. We wouldn't have had all that civil strife in Nelabam if not for him."

[Public] Akiva says, "Sure, we like the room to grow, but the clan kind of thinks the way he got it was tacky."

[Public] % Jeanne scribbles tinyplot ideas on her notepad. 'Cockatrice... assassination attempt... on Taleo... over Nelabam.'

[Public] Sinan says, "With the past few war seasons the male Bears were hit pretty hard. I think we're all still waiting to see if a male military leader emerges."

[Public] Fiero says, "But they don't mind the gems produced from their 'mining city' I'm sure"

[Public] Arik says, "In the interim they have Parosh. :P"

[Public] Do Not Upset Mr. Bigglesworth Ronti reads over Jeanne's shoulder. "Do you really need to TP that? Come on."

[Public] Umaish says, "by clanmil bear 3 of the 7 bear clan military leaders (if that's current) are men."

[Public] Umaish says, "and that's leader (captain and above)"

[Public] Akiva says, "Well. They don't really count."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "In the past 20 IC years, off the top of my head, the major Bear military figures have been (in no particular order) Xegolus, Caracallo, Aldrikos, Docci, Parosh, Zelva, Zayes and Nazeera. Akiva might think of a couple I'm missing."

[Public] Akiva thinks you got most of them.

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "You forgot Taleo."

[Public] Akiva says, "Not military."

[Public] Kenkarett says, "Nah, he's a Canadian, so doesn't count."

[Public] Akiva says, "He's an oddity. A political male."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "So men have a slight edge."

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "That's what the Republic is, a big military."

[Public] Orfi asks "Is it my imagination or do most the Ista Aldriks tend toward a healing deity (Unot or Soli)

[Public] Akiva says, "Seriously, he's not military."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Taleo's a weird case for a Bear."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "We're all used to him, so it doesn't seem so strange, but, really, for a Bear man he's extraordinary."

[Public] Akiva says, "Every time I talk to him about military matters, I can tell his mind is wandering off to the Dove or something."

[Public] Kelarik sees Unot, Soli, and Zin as being typical 'Bear' deities on the whole, although I dunno about Ista Aldrik specifics myself.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Actually, Orfi, the traditional Ista Aldrik deities are Soli, Eesha, and Kamnestra."

[Public] Umaish says, "though actually... he is a military leader as well... or was when he was proxy/regent...."

[Public] Akiva says, "Bears are big on Kammy."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Which are actually more or less the traditional Bear deities, with the possible addition of Zin."

[Public] Kelarik says, "Are they? Cool."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "So the men have the military edge but don't revolt since they are bribed with nooky? Or are they shirkers are hearts?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Having a medallion and ordering soldiers around doesn't make you military. It just makes you in charge. Which he does rather well. I swear, his only combat skill is 'combat/smack-a-rump'."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "The Unot thing is because of Fidelia, who started out as an odd duck who created outrage in her family for pikcing Unot."

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Is Tagali an oddity too then? As Minister of Ecconomics for the Bears?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Not really, because it's a subordinate position."

[Public] Akiva says, "He takes orders from women -- and happily."

[Public] Umaish says, "as the political leader is the ultimate military leader...."

[Public] Joey says, "The GDs have had female ministers, even."

[Public] Arik says, "Sure, but if Taleo said he's taking command of the city's military forces we'd all stare at him. :P"

[Public] Corpse of Audentus nods and always dealt with Endeera when doing trade. "Just wanted to check."

[Public] Umaish says, "wasn't Leyla proxy one time?"

[Public] Joey says, "Do now, in fact."

[Public] Akiva says, "It's like saying George W Bush is Rambo just because he's technically in charge of the Joint Chiefs."

[Public] Joey says, "Katriana is Minister of Health."

[Public] Jalil says, "Not officiallly."

[Public] Jalil says, "Leyla would sit in for Judano on council occasionally."

[Public] Akiva says, "I mean, only an idiot would think him capable of storming an enemy position and taking out a mortar bunker."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "He can't, his men can? I mean sans Jalil, how many CL's are warriors?"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber remembers Inaya sitting for Belik at council a couple of times.

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Bear men are a lot like GD men in a way. The military being their best shot for fame and notoriety. Creepy."

[Public] Umaish thinks no George W Bush is commander in Chief, which as regent/active proxy of the bear clan Taleo was Commander in Chief of the Bear Clan Military, sure he's not going to be an "in field" commander or see action like some other leaders have and may yet still.... Like in the 24 A.U. raids when Jalil flew his griffon into combat 3 times.....

[Public] Jalil says, "Taleo is a capable military strategist from the times I've worked with him. But I think that is getting off-topic."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Of the current clan council, I think only the oldbies have seen active military service."

[Public] Arik says, "Define active military service? Luna, Diamia, and Ania all served in the military. But they weren't exactly leaders."

[Public] Umaish says, "and Amenik...."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Been in the field at some point. Actually, I think Diamia was? Amenik went to the front, but didn't fight."

[Public] Joey snickers. Battle priest, maybe.

[Public] Joey says, "Diamia went to the front as a Healer once, that I can recall."

[Public] Furen says, "Battle priest is noble! But fairly low on the glory front."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "In any case, we're wandering off the topic. :)"

[Public] Odoni has joined this channel.

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "So a Bear Lord who is all testeroned up from a life in the military cannot just cream some commoner for looking at him funny? Oh man, poor Fiero."

[Public] Orfi says, "What RP hints would you give to someone if they wished to play a Bear (mind you, it was my first clan)"

[Public] Umaish would say that'd depend on their @sheet but back on topic...

[Public] Fiero isn't a Bear, really.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "You can do whatever you want. /Consequences/ depend on what your clan leader thinks and if anyone finds out. :)"

[Public] Akiva says, "That's where the sneaky comes in."

[Public] Akiva says, "If you, a Bear lord, have a repressed inner rage and you want to beat the crap out of some commoner, you might lure said commoner into an abandoned building with the promise of a cute girl and nookie, and then proceed to pummel him into pate' -- and then make it look like a mugging."

[Public] Akiva says, "And be home in time for supper with no one the wiser."

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Cool. :)"

[Public] Ladonna says, "That is cool."

[Public] Judanus says, "I think someone asked this earlier, but I didn't see an answer, and it intrigues me. The Bears are super witty, super cool and collected, super patient, and completely Dame Judi Dench giving the orders and James Bond carrying out the super sneaky missions - but what sort of flaws, or weaknesses, is the Bear clan known for?"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "As for RP hints, Orfi, it's going to depend a bit on the character. You might look at getting into the arts -- literature, theatre, etc -- which is something Bears are traditionally into but has been really underused ICly. You might want to get sneaky skills and see if you can be of use to the clan, or RP a lot in the family, or (if female) tell your men they should stick to waving swords and not try to think. If male, you might go party hard without the 'nice girls' finding out. You might want to explore the quirks of a character who is very reserved in public and lets his/her emotions out in private -- possibly even a Bear who is perfectly proper in front of others and then is running around with lovers in private. Akiva can probably add ideas to that list."

[Public] Ladonna says, "Their emotions being so repressed, sitting back and waiting..."

[Public] Akiva says, "Do you mean personal flaws, Jud, or tactical ones?"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber likes the Judi Dench/James Bond image, though. It's very Bear.

[Public] Noble privilege educator, Taleo checks in from a while ago, Bears always produced Elianosite, though Nelabam gave the Bear clan other minerals. (Yes, I'm that behind in reading) ;)

[Public] Nimizo thinks the biggest bear weakness can be over confidence Jud (ironically some what similar to the GDs in that aspect). Or at least that's my take on it.

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "They have no weakness. They are the idealized feminine society. Rah. ;)"

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Male dominated societies... all kinds of problems. ;)"

[Public] Joey says, "Their weakness is that silk burns easily. Bwa ha ha... I mean..."

[Public] Jalil says, "It's Judi Dench and James Bond, except that instead of a gun, Bond slaps you on the wrist and sends you home without any supper."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Thanks for clarifying, Taleo."

[Public] Akiva looks amused at Jalil.

[Public] Akiva says, "You keep thinking that, peaches."

[Public] Jalil says, "Don't send me home without any supper. :("

[Public] Joey says, "Truthfully though, any number of the traits that have already been mentioned could be interpreted as a weakness; it's all in how you see things, and more importantly, how you use them to your advantage!"

[Public] Akiva says, "And of course we have weaknesses. We're not adaptable. We hate change, and god knows things change around here really fast."

[Public] Jalil is joking, nothing is so simple. :)

[Public] Nimizo says, "that and the bears, again ironically like teh GDs have conquered too many people. They've gotten so big they can't police themselves entirely. There are dissatisfied peoples within them both. Akiva's trip to where ever it was showed us that."

[Public] Riven returns. Is Bear hour still going?

[Public] Akiva says, "We're so traditional that if we have a leader who goes off in a weird direction, we're likely to keep following just long enough to get ourselves mired in serious trouble before we revolt."

[Public] Joey says, "They just now accepted a Clan Leader, for instance!"

[Public] Akiva says, "Yeah. We're slow."

[Public] % Jeanne nods. The Bear clan is one of the least adaptable, and they don't deal with change well. Witness that Fidelia was proxy instead of a CL for a loooong time.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Bears aren't conquerors by nature, though, which is probably why they have less territory than, say, the GDs. The Nelabam thing is unusual (and probably due to a man being proxy!:)"

[Public] Do Not Upset Mr. Bigglesworth Ronti points back to his question: Are the bears giving up on the return of Sabine?

[Public] Akiva says, "To be a good Bear leader means -gently- leading people where you want them to go, baby step by baby step, and hope nothing nudges you off course in the meantime. It's tiring. And slow. And means that we're much less likely to respond quickly to an outside threat."

[Public] Mahir outlines a brief flaw... "Because the Bears are known for being so sneaky, anything that happens that people don't understand, or perhaps have little knowledge of, can be aimed at them. I'm actually shocked that there's been no social adjustment for people whispering behind their hands 'Ahh, Her Honor Fidelia finally got her revenge on Lady Yasha. Patient ones, those Bears."

[Public] Akiva says, "She's almost 90, Ronti, and she had cancer when she left. I think the Bears will never give up hope, but even they can't hold on forever."

[Public] % Jeanne says, "Think of them as a huge heavy thing with a lot of inertia. It's difficult to get them to change direction off to a side, much less to actually turn around or anything. So it can take literally years for Bear leadership to sell the populace on something."

[Public] % Jeanne eyes Akiva. She's 68!

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber thinks the social adjustments and emits to Fidelia becoming clan leader would give you the answer to that, Ronti. Some still hope Sabine will return, but most are resigned.

[Public] Akiva says, "That's almost 90 in Firan years!"

[Public] Akiva says, "But seriously. If you were a young Bear leader and you wanted to, say, modernize a system of roads, you'd have to inch along making tiny motions towards change for -years- before you could sell it to the people, who would say crap like, "This road was good enough for my father, and for his father, and for his father's father! Why does it need a ditch and a crosswalk and those little grates that stop cows?" A strong Gold Dragon leader could just build the damn road."

[Public] Riven says, "The Bears don't seem to be as militant as some other clans, or as 'artistic'. Are they entrepreneurial?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Not particularly. Definitely not as much as the Eagles."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "They're 'cultured.'"

[Public] Fiero would build the road and paint a mural on it and call it art. The Bears would lurv it

[Public] Akiva says, "I tend to think of them as very literate, too. Poets, playwrights, sarcastic essays. Very Bear."

[Public] Mahir says, "Very artisitic. You'll note a lot of sculptures around Bear homes and properties, especially in the district, as well as museums and other places."

[Public] Akiva says, "And that goes with the Kammy-worship."

[Public] Riven says, "Do a lot of Bears devote themselves to Kamnestra?"

[Public] Kelarik says, "Okay. Random and completely silly question. Why did the hairpins end up becoming such a major 'thing'? Why not, say, fine jewelry in general, or the perfect palla for a Bear woman?"

[Public] Orfi says, "sneaky :)"

[Public] Akiva says, "It's the dividing line between a woman who controls herself and a woman who doesn't. Put simply."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Because loose hair means a loose woman!"

[Public] Fiero says, "Because only whores wear their hair loose"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Pallas are important, too, but for some reason they never caught the imagination the way hairpins do. :)"

[Public] Fiero says, "I believe."

[Public] Kelarik grins. "Well, it was a silly question. But it had to be asked."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "That's a good way of looking at it, Akiva. They're a symbol of self-control, which is also so very important to the Bears."

[Public] Akiva says, "If you wear your hair up, it shows you have the willpower and discipline to put your emotions under control. Loose hair is wanton, sexy, passionate, free -- and uncontrolled. You make bad decisions when you're emotional. You make good ones when you're aware and thinking clearly."

[Public] Kelarik says, "So in other words, it's more of a symbolic thing than anything else. Cool."

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Hairpins are a phallic symbol demoting power and control? *runs!* ;)"

[Public] Akiva says, "It's like a female executive wearing sharply tailored business suits to work. If she showed up in a sexy red dress, the men in the office won't take her seriously."

[Public] Umaish says, "unless you're like Junia when she was a trice.... and tried appeasing the crowds...."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier always checks to see if a Bear woman is wearing hairpins.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Yeah. You can argue the Bears are caught in the phase of feminism that believes women has to restrain or resign her sexuality in order to be powerful."

[Public] Mahir says, "Plus a handy weapon. Remember folks, a lot of the older characters have been slaves, fled the city, etc."

[Public] Akiva says, "If not powerful, at least taken seriously."

[Public] Orfi says, "and they are good at jabbing eyes out ;)"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Like the Star Trek episode where the council of women rule but they have trouble when Federation men crash on their planet?"

[Public] Riven says, "Is there much difference between the older Bear generation's attitudes and the younger one, especially in Anarinuell?"

[Public] Akiva says, "There are powerful women who don't stand in public life the way Bear women often do -- if you want to be a behind-the-scenes mover, it matters less that the populace at large sees you as a soft and frivolous woman."

[Public] Nimizo says, "they're very much like the British Queens"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Elizabeth I? Totally Bear."

[Public] Nimizo says, "Exactly"

[Public] Akiva says, "To a degree. Elizabeth I had to be The Virgin Queen, because if she let herself be sensual and open (as she probably was) the men of the time would start to ride roughshod over her."

[Public] Akiva says, "Er. I was typing that while Amber typed hers. She's fast."

[Public] Nimizo says, "That's what I meant."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Smart, shrewd, witty, literate, carefully controlled public persona...very Bear."

[Public] Akiva says, "It's a society lacking in shades of gray. You either are open and emotional with everyone (loose hair), or you're never emotional or open at all in public (hairpins). One or the other. You can't do both."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "What are common Bear attidues toward other clans?"

[Public] Nimizo says, "oh Akiva you totally explained something to me there"

[Public] Nimizo says, "or rather articulated something I'd been trying to put my finger on"

[Public] Akiva says, "Bemused tolerance, for the most part. Sometimes we roll our eyes in frustration at their childishness."

[Public] Nimizo says, "depends on the bear too and the other clan"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Add in OC/foreigners too. I know monotheism attitudes did a great job on this for our religion so I am curious."

[Public] Umaish says, "though there are some bear attitudes, that believe even if only you and your spouse are in the room it's still too public...."

[Public] Nimizo says, "we're more tense with the GDs and Cockatrice than anyone"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Bear to Eagle, Bear to Griffon, etc . . ."

[Public] Fiero says, "Why was it that Taleo took the medallion anyway? I didn't see it in any news file"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Bear-GD war. The GDs overthrew Junia."

[Public] Akiva says, "It's...kind of complicated. But basically, there was a bad alliance made and Junia lost control."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber nods. It is very complicated.

[Public] Fiero says, "But why didn't Fidelia or someone else take it?"

[Public] Fiero says, "Another IA"

[Public] Akiva says, "Taleo took over to try and keep things together, with the intent of eventually restoring the IAs, because he was a good loyal Bear. (Is! Is a good loyal Bear!)"

[Public] Umaish says, "because at that time... the NPCs were tired of IA leadership."

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "So Xamori and Rianna are like crazy scandalous for Bears then? Since they are open and emotional? 'Hair loose' types?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Fidelia'd been discredited during the Bear-GD war due to...It's -really- complicated."

[Public] Akiva says, "No, Umaish."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "It wasn't the NPCs."

[Public] % Jeanne says, "At the time, Fidelia was disgraced."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "It was the alliance who won the war."

[Public] Akiva says, "Petrina, Fidelia and Junia were the only IAs around to take power, and they'd all been discredited for varying reasons."

[Public] Fiero says, "Ah, but what about the rest of the IA's? Had Petrina gone nutso by then? Or Gellina?"

[Public] Fiero says, "Oh I see."

[Public] Akiva snorts.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber nods to Akiva. And the alliance didn't trust any of them.

[Public] Akiva says, "Only a moron would give Gellina a medal."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Gellina was never really taken seriously."

[Public] Akiva says, "I mean, really. Lobotomies would be required."

[Public] Akiva says, "She wore her hair loose in public. Often."

[Public] Nimizo says, "yes Aud - Xamori and Rianna are both exceptions"

[Public] Umaish just remembers some of the emits etc. from that time

[Public] Nimizo says, "not the norm at all"

[Public] Fiero says, "So here's a question"

[Public] Jalil says, "Taleo was really the only person available. It was him or Aldrikos."

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Lots of exceptions."

[Public] Umaish says, "it was like "no more breasts in power etc.""

[Public] Fiero says, "If the bears were not happy with the IA's and they needed restored by Taleo, wouldn't that alter their perception to at least allow non IA Proxies? Or did he completely restore the Npc faith in the IA's single handedly?"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "I mean is their any one clan that Bears loath? My question is based on the format news monotheism attitudes does for each faith except instead I am curious on a clan by clan basis including OC'ers, foreigners . . . and on a similar note how do they feel about the Republic as well? Was it good or bad to join up?"

[Public] Akiva says, "We've had non-IA proxies."

[Public] Akiva says, "Pia, for one."

[Public] Fiero says, "Right, but without upsetting the npcs"

[Public] Akiva says, "She didn't upset the NPCs."

[Public] Fiero says, "..."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "There was a big social hit for Pia's appointment."

[Public] Arik says, "I can't see the bears deigning to loathe clans. :P It's more like irritated distaste. :P"

[Public] Akiva says, "Was there?"

[Public] Fiero says, "At the begining of the conversation it was stated that the npcs got upset."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Two million SPs for all involved, including the snubbed IAs."

[Public] Akiva says, "See, that's a flaw."

[Public] Arik says, "..."

[Public] Nimizo was pretty sure we hate the cockatrice

[Public] Arik says, "I'd get two million SP hits for Zaridos throwing stuff at people. :P"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "It didn't cause a riot, but the Bears were not happy that Petrina and Gellina were snubbed for a formerly Cockatrice half-commoner Teranzik."

[Public] Akiva says, "Because Pia's perfectly capable, and there's no reason she shouldn't be able to be a proxy, and our stupid NPCs got all huffy about it."

[Public] Akiva has serious issues with the Tea & Hairpins brigade. Sometimes I get too much enjoyment out of poking them with sticks.

[Public] Fiero says, "Do Bears Riot?"

[Public] Noble privilege educator, Taleo says, "The Bear Clan actually has had a male Clan Leader before. Aldris' father was Clan Leader (Aldris/k is Sabine's mother). It's not like the Hydra and GD clan with women, it's just different."

[Public] Akiva says, "Sure."

[Public] Akiva says, "The Kemet Massacre comes to mind."

[Public] Arik says, "When bears riot though it's nasty"

[Public] Akiva says, "_Lately_ the Bears have taken to rioting quietly with picket signs."

[Public] Arik says, "They're not like Eagles who will just kind of wander out...riot then go home."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "They do. But they're slower to than other clans, and they have quiet sit-in riots."

[Public] Akiva says, "But when they get riled up, hooboy. They stay riled up."

[Public] Fiero says, "I thought it was rude? Wouldn't they just absent themselves?"

[Public] Akiva says, "And they don't forget a grudge. Bears will be pissed for -years- over stuff."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Bears /never/ forget."

[Public] Arik says, "Not Akiva though, she's got too much of a sweet disposition."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Well. They might forget. But it takes a long, long time."

[Public] Riven says, "So we're a slow to anger sort of clan. Got it."

[Public] Akiva says, "Even when we want them to forget, and get over it, and sign treaties and such. Slow to anger, slow to forgive. Very slow."

[Public] Adan has left this channel.

[Public] Akiva says, "Actually making peace when the Bears think they have a grievance is a mess."

[Public] Arik says, "dealing with Bears in general when they feel they've got a justified grievance can be pretty bad."

[Public] Akiva says, "I seriously want to beat them over the head from time to time, and yell, "JUST LET IT GO ALREADY JEEZ." :)"

[Public] Do Not Upset Mr. Bigglesworth Ronti checks the scrolls. "And lo, the end days shall come upon you when a Bear utters the phrase 'Fahget a bout it. No harm no foul.'

[Public] Akiva says, "That's another flaw, though. So traditional that they'd follow a poor IA leader over a good -non- IA leader, even to ruination."

[Public] Riven says, "What tends to distinguish Bear commoner PCs from the vast shadowy mass of NPCs out there?"

[Public] Umaish says, "there have been marriage arrangements among nobles to help relations for the bear clan before, which have had to be called off... and then the IA/Firgalik matches not many seem to like those matches ICly in retrospect now..."

[Public] Akiva says, "Bears don't talk when they're angry. They just...disappear. And then livestock starts vanishing in the night. They are very weird and kind of quietly terrifying in their rage. Fortunately, they don't get that angry too often."

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Thank god, the poor livestock! Anger like that could terrify an entire field of cattle."

[Public] Riven says, "They kill the livestock or they move away?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Sometimes you might find pieces. In your shoes."

[Public] Orfi says, "whatever happened to the plot that had the cow's head winding up in some Bear noble's bed?"

[Public] Akiva says, "See, Amber thinks the Bears are English. I think they can be kind of Scottish, too. You know. Weird and terrifying and occasionally painting themselves blue to come howling over a wall and kill you all. And then go home and have tea."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber giggles.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "We'll call them British. Does that work?"

[Public] Akiva says, "But I mean, that is seriously dire utmost furious Bear. They haven't done that in years."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Since Ojitar is more than likely heir to Jalil the IA's got the wrong Firgalik so they are upset? Although with Jalil single once again they should be putting the moves on him now. *winks*"

[Public] Nimizo says, "Akiva your 'Get 'em' was like the moment Nimi decided 'Alright my clan's cool after all'"

[Public] Akiva says, "They were close to doing it when I got kidnapped ages ago, I think. And they almost went at the GDs that way, too, which would be a mess because they're crazy but not -that- good at fighting, all in all."

[Public] Fiero says, "They already have Javier"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "There weren't any illusions there, Javier. Halakeye was always from an obscure Firgalik branch."

[Public] Akiva says, "Fidelia should marry Julea to Agrippa."

[Public] Mahir says, "Yeah, well, they're busy with their poetry, and arts, and everything - getting all armored up and whatnot is so taxing and sweaty. Plus you can't wear hairpins with a helmet."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Yes, but Bear's are crafty and if they could have nudged Halakeye's start up it -may- have worked."

[Public] Akiva says, "Weren't really interested in that, Javier. :)"

[Public] Akiva says, "Anyway. Everyone loves Ojitar."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "He's the Raymond of the GD's. :)"

[Public] Akiva says, "What's not to love? Personable, thoughtful, charismatic, badass with a weapon, and he's got a butt you can bounce quarters off of."

[Public] Umaish says, "nah he's more like Bill Clinton without the scandal, and well he knows how to use a weapon :)"

[Public] Mahir thinks we're drifting away from the Bears here.

[Public] Jalil says, "Da Bears."

[Public] Riven is still curious how PC commoner Bears tend to distinguish themselves story/RP wise mostly from the masses of NPC Bears. What's their role in Firan the Game?

[Public] Nimizo says, "a lot of us are servants"

[Public] Nimizo says, "or closely tied to noble houses. More so than in most clans I think."

[Public] Akiva thinks that's definitely so, Nimi.

[Public] Joey says, "PCs can be super-special, or they can be slice-of-life. That is true for every clan."

[Public] Akiva says, "You might find that Bear nobles rely very heavily on commoners to do things for them. Errands. Projects. Secrets. I'm sure all clans are like that, but Bears have a keen sense of the commoner-noble relationship that means they like to patronize their commoners, give them things to do, and guard them very carefully."

[Public] Nimizo didn't appreciate that fully until recent events. But if you look at the middle class families all of us have servant roots.

[Public] Riven says, "Besides tea, is there anything that tends to characterize Bear food or clothing?"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "And being a servant is a very respected profession in the Bear clan."

[Public] Akiva says, "It is! One of the highest. It means you can be trusted to keep secrets."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "And Bears tend to have lots of secrets."

[Public] Nimizo nods it is. We have a lot more differant kinds of servants too. It's more about 'serving' than cleaning floors.

[Public] Nimizo says, "if that makes any sense"

[Public] Akiva says, "Bear clothing tends to be a bit modest, but very stylish. If you're into fashion, think Chanel versus the Eagles' Versace."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Steph has said in the past the Bears are the most 'tasteful' clan."

[Public] Riven says, "It's very helpful, actually, the 'serving' thing. I'm still working on how to play a servant, besides talking about mopping."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Elegance, classy, understated -- in clothing and decor."

[Public] Akiva says, "They like classic, elegant, chic things. Tasteful hints of jewelry as opposed to full on bling."

[Public] Riven was wondering if any clan was notorious for spicy food or anything. It wouldn't be the Bears, I think!

[Public] Akiva says, "The hardest thing about being a servant is that it's 99% waiting and 1% being totally indispensible."

[Public] Orfi bites her tongue... HARD

[Public] Akiva says, "The Shamis like spicy food, actually."

[Public] Nimizo says, "Riven it's not about being a servant so much as being closely tied to one person or family. And Akiva's like so right"

[Public] Umaish says, "in some ways much like their Hydran relatives in those respects at least (clothing etc)"

[Public] Akiva says, "Firans tend to go to almost an opposite extreme to get away from that."

[Public] Umaish says, "while the hydrans may wear more outdated styles, they'd be modest still..."

[Public] Akiva says, "Really. Bears tend to be kind of weird that way. I keep using that word, but it's true. We'll ignore you for years, and then there'll be a knock on your door and we'll tell you, "We need you to come with us, do these things, and be wildly brave. And you'll probably never tell anyone you did it.""

[Public] Akiva says, "And if you -are- the good Bear servant, you'll go, and you'll do it, and you'll come home and keep the secret."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "A lot of prominent Bears who started out non-noble came from servant roots, too."

[Public] Akiva says, "Yep."

[Public] Nimizo nods

[Public] Nimizo says, "Tagali"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Graciana, Tagali, Cyrilla...Parosh was a IA servant once, too."

[Public] Akiva says, "Prove you can be trusted and you'll find yourself doing more and more important things, until we start delegating so much to you that you whimper and cry uncle. ;)"

[Public] Umaish grins "or maybe that should be aunt in the bears case... :)

[Public] Fiero says, "Do they rely so much on their servants that they turn to them first before looking to other nobles?"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Well. There's a difference between what you ask of servants as opposed to what you ask of nobles."

[Public] Fiero says, "I'm speaking in organizing events, projects, etc"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "If you need a twin murdered or an enemy mugged, you're probably going to ask a servant because it involves getting hands dirty."

[Public] Nimizo says, "think of... high war vs low war"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "If you need a big public event organized, you're probably going to ask a noble because it's public and they look pretty as hosts."

[Public] Corpse of Audentus chuckles, "That's the exact opposit of what I would expect."

[Public] Nimizo says, "servants do the dirty stuff."

[Public] Nimizo says, "nobles do the public stuff"

[Public] Odoni beam at Akiva.

[Public] Akiva tickles Odoni.

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "Bears are weird. ;)"

[Public] Fiero says, "Indeed"

[Public] Nimizo says, "you're stuck with us Fiero."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "You'll find that Bears compartmentalize a lot. Public vs. proper; proper vs. improper; clean vs. dirty, etc."

[Public] Fiero says, "Yes but I'm a Teranzik, and every 'not the norm' type of bear, is a Teranik"

[Public] Fiero says, "*Teranzik"

[Public] Umaish says, "think of the commoners as like the US Special forces... and the nobles more like the large sections of the military...."

[Public] Nimizo nods nods.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber would disagree.

[Public] Nimizo says, "no Umaish. The nobles get the glory."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "With the Teranzik thing."

[Public] Fiero says, "Taleo was an efficient male leader, Xamori is an Eagle at heart with her bling, Rianna can fight like a Gold Dragon man...."

[Public] Fiero says, "Perhaps not the 'old' Teranziks, but the active ones"

[Public] Akiva says, "Xamori is a commoner who got lucky with her adoption."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Taleo is actually, other than political prowess, pretty much a stunning example of a Bear male."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Before he was made proxy, he was a very typical Bear male."

[Public] Riven says, "Was he?"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Yes. He was polite to the ladies and played hard when they weren't around. :)"

[Public] Fiero says, "That may be, but Xamori has proved her worth, even over those with full blood"

[Public] Akiva says, "I'm not saying she isn't worthy. Just that she's not really an example of a typical anything."

[Public] Umaish says, "Xamori is kind of like Nevra's Successor except in a much better position..."

[Public] Akiva says, "And Rianna's similiarly an adopted neo."

[Public] Fiero says, "She bears the name, therefore her actions effect the family just as much as Taleo's does"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "She's the neo daughter of a convicted traitor. She's in a precarious position."

[Public] Fiero says, "Xamori?"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Rianna."

[Public] Joey says, "Rianna."

[Public] Prima says, "Rianna"

[Public] Fiero says, "I was gonna say"

[Public] Corpse of Audentus says, "That makes little sense to suggest this whole set of guidelines and then turn around and say... they are neos so can get away with anything."

[Public] Nimizo says, "they can't Aud"

[Public] Akiva says, "They can get away with a little because very little is expected of them."

[Public] Nimizo says, "and they don't."

[Public] Akiva says, "But there's an invisible line, and when they cross it, they'll lose everything."

[Public] Nimizo says, "but I expect if Rianna stepped ... exactly"

[Public] Nimizo says, "this is the clan that sent one of their royal family to work in a brothel"

[Public] % Jeanne will point out that we had a quite highly-respected neo (Atreides) get appointed as Viceroy, and the populace nearly lynched the clan council for it.

[Public] Fiero says, "Sometimes the more intelligent and politically minded people end up playing neos, and it happens"

[Public] Fiero says, "But yea, the Npcs hate it"

[Public] Akiva says, "And sometimes neos reach too far and end up with their throats cut. :)"

[Public] Sinan is one of them. "What Akiva said is true. Those nobles mentions, Xamori, Rianna, Carina, and others don't have many expectations of them so we do have a bit more freedom than some other nobles.

[Public] Akiva says, "It's wise to know limits. Especially in the Bear clan, there's not a lot of room for people who try to push the envelope."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "When I think 'Teranzik' I think of people I think of Taleo, Tergus, Mauvia, Pia...whether they're alive or Teranziks now, they were pretty typical of their station/gender. So the family's not a refuge for the atypical. Twenty IC years, the most atypical Bear noblewoman was an Ista Aldrik."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Er. Twenty IC years ago."

[Public] Nimizo says, "Sinan with that freedome comes a glass ceiling"

[Public] Nimizo says, "those nobles are never going to be proxies or what not"

[Public] Chef Morimoto as Ocarian has left this channel.

[Public] Fiero says, "Well no one is, other than an IA"

[Public] Rikon has joined this channel.

[Public] Fiero says, "So that's moot"

[Public] Fiero says, "Except Pia!"

[Public] Fiero says, "Forgot Pia"

[Public] Sinan says, "You never know, Nimizo."

[Public] Riven says, "Do Bears believe in children as seen and not heard? I've noticed that certain other clans (eagles?) tend to be much more lenient/loving with their kids, whereas the Hydras, for example, are rather strict."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Neos are unlikely to get married into royalty and that sort of thing as well."

[Public] Akiva says, "I think Bears are actually very affectionate with their children - in private. In public, kids had better behave themselves."

[Public] Nimizo is just saying that's the trade off for the little bit of wiggle room

[Public] Rikon says, "Especially boys."

[Public] Nimizo thinks so too Akiva. Just there's rules. There's rules to everything.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Bears love children. Children are a blessing. They like having a lot. But I think they're very affectionate in private and restrained in public. Misbehaving children are embarrassing."

[Public] Riven grins. Got it.

[Public] Umaish says, "it also depends the personality with regards to Children as well... while some may be very restrained only in public, others may be so at all times."

[Public] Fiero says, "Graciana for example"

[Public] Fiero says, "She loved the kids"

[Public] Nimizo says, "there's a lot of bears in the Kamnestran and Solian Temples too"

[Public] Riven nods. The Istanar family is a definite, ah, well they're not normal.

[Public] Noble privilege educator, Taleo has to go to bed, but does a brief summary of the Teranziks: During the great war they were nearly all wiped out, only Mauvia, Tergus, and Taleo survived. The core of the family was those three, and back in a time when Taleo was in power, he figured he needed to expand the family. Tergus and Mauvia died, and later on so did Leonus. It's basically a family still struggling to rebuild from the Great War, and very much short on traditional Bear blood beyond those directly related. The mixture of neonobles and less traditional nobility is the outcome of all that, as the family rebuilds still.

[Public] Akiva says, "It helps that you've had 293480 kids, though."

[Public] Rikon says, "Don't forget Leonus'."

[Public] Noble privilege educator, Taleo says, "Leonus wasn't a slave, though, he was born after the family escaped."

[Public] Fiero says, "Damn slaves"

[Public] Nimizo smirks

[Public] Noble privilege educator, Taleo snickers, It does make Taleo a little more sympathetic to ex-slaves, hence Fiero! But anyway, on that note, work calls for tomorrow morning and off I go.

[Public] Kelarik says, "Goodnight, Taleo."

[Public] Nimizo says, "night Taleo"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Take care Taleo!"

[Public] Corpse of Audentus calls it a night as well. "Thanks for the discussion Amber, and you too Akiva. Learned a lot."

[Public] Nimizo says, "night Aud"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Ok, from my previous questions Bears seems to grumble siltently at the other clans and not loathe anyone?"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "They're not very fond of the GDs. They've been big rivals for a long time."

[Public] Winnie The Pooh Dar has left this channel.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "But I wouldn't say they hate any other clan with a poisonous seething hatred, no."

[Public] Michael Wincott as Nysem says, "but they're ssmart enough to know they aren't as powerful, yet, militarily speaking."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "They have other advantages, though. From a GD point of view, Bears are dishonourable and fight dirty, because they like to be sneak and manipulate. From the Bear point of view, GDs are unsophisticated brutes -- anyone remember the 'I'm With Stupid Tunics' from the Cockatrice war?"

[Public] Nimizo says, "they had I'm with Stupid Tunics?"

[Public] Umaish does

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "so Bears don't like GD's, what about other monos (Hydrans) or the non Firan people (Ticanee/foreigners) and OC'ers."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Given the Bears need for propriety one would think they have strong views on each of these groups."

[Public] Michael Wincott as Nysem says, "OCers despise city folk in general"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "They have a very complicated relationship with the Hydrans."

[Public] Umaish says, "well hydrans are likely related to most of the older families so it really depends..."

[Public] Michael Wincott as Nysem says, "because of Taleo and Taria being together so long the Bear and Ticanee have gotten along fairly well."

[Public] Fiero says, "Fidelia is BFF with Taria to, I believe"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "On one hand, they absolutely hate the way the Hydras treat women. On the other, the Hydrans are closely related to them by blood (in the case of the royal families, /very/ closely related), and in some ways they're alike in their emphasis on modesty and propriety. (I'd call the Bears more...mentally agile, though.)"

[Public] Fiero says, "They really are like..the same clan but women lead one and men lead the other...and they Hydrans beat their women openly while the Bears poison their men."

[Public] Umaish says, "well that may all be for public show as well Fiero :) can't have weakness shown publicly..."

[Public] Nimizo says, "Remember Belik was Aldrik's brother"

[Public] Orfi apologizes but hasta get sleep

[Public] Umaish meant the Fidelia/Taria thing....

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "The Bears have sort of a condescending compassionate attitude towards the Ticanee -- 'Poor savages. We must civilize them!' That's cultural. Politically, they get along well because of personal ties with Taria, yeah."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber nods to Nimizo. You could call the Istabeliks an offshoot of the Royal Bear family, but they won't like it. ;)

[Public] Nimizo doesn't know who would be madder, the Istabeliks or the IAs

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "During Gadiste's Hydran rebellion, the Hydras tried to kidnap Fidelia's son because he was a potential Hydran heir."

[Public] Nimizo nods

[Public] Nimizo says, "Selia's also Aldrik's closest living female relative... but I think we just try not to think about that"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Well, other than Sabine, if she's still alive. ;)"

[Public] Nimizo says, "if she is yes"

[Public] Akiva says, "It's why I was kidnapped. (Yay)"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "It's also one of the ways why Aldrikos was Amenik's regent for a while. The Hydras accepted him because of blood ties."

[Public] Nimizo nods.

[Public] Umaish says, "but really.... to some degree. (and for those that haven't I suggest you do) most all of the leaders are related.... actually they all are if you think about it...."

[Public] Nimizo says, "thank god cause it was him or Sadin (Belik's favorite Nefew) and we all know that woulda been hell. :P"

[Public] Riven is still reading up news files on half the people you're mentioning. :)

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "They are to most degree, but the closer the blood ties are the more likely they are to influence politics."

[Public] Umaish says, "so any of the clans royalty could if it got to that point become another clan's leader one day, yeah some of them aren't blood ties but are still there."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Well, Nydiam was CL of both the Eagles and the Cockatrice (at different times.)"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "SO it's happened."

[Public] Nimizo says, "and yeah there's a lot of clans that have claims to eachother. Like Jude and Oji both have blood claims to both GD and Griffon thrones"

[Public] Fiero says, "and Ticanee"

[Public] Nimizo says, "hence Jud and Luna being engaged when they were so young."

[Public] Nimizo says, "yeah the Ticanee too"

[Public] Umaish says, "Elianiks, Elikistas, Firgaliks, Ista Aldrik's, Eagle royal family, Corinala, Ista Beliks all related by blood and some of those are related to the Oshtas....

[Public] Nimizo says, "probably less likely to get the Tic throne than either of those two since Taria had a bazillion children"

[Public] Fiero says, "They are still the oldest, however"

[Public] Rikon says, "Age doesn't really factor into things."

[Public] Umaish says, "and the Istanydiams are related as well..."

[Public] Nimizo says, "they haven' lived with the Ticanee since they were toddlers"

[Public] Michael Wincott as Nysem meekly points out Emil is still on roster

[Public] Nimizo says, "Poor Emil he needs a player"

[Public] Umaish says, "but we digressed again :)"

[Public] Nimizo says, "any more bear stuff?"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "We've been going for almost two and an half hours. Any other burning questions?"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "news bear attitudes? :P"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "It's in progress."

[Public] Ladonna has left this channel.

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier snugs. "Thanks for your time hun! I hope this is saved for people who can't be here though and it seems you're already on it!" :)

[Public] Michael Wincott as Nysem says, "so the flint and wood chips bomb, it's supposed to have the tiny fragments of flint rub quickly when it hits and sparks the oil treated bits of lumber?"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Oh, are they mono Bears and how do Bears view mono's in general? :)"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "We're putting them up on the website. Someone's working on the last one."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Oh, are they mono Bears and how do Bears view mono's in general? :)"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier slaps fingers.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Bears are very traditional, and that includes traditionally poly. Their royal family tends to often have very devoted priestesses. There may be a few mono individuals, but they'd be rare, and they're not too fond of monotheism, probably also since it's associated with the repression of women."

[Public] Nimizo says, "we're all about Unot, Kamnestra and Soli (I think), not many Elikans or Zinians."

[Public] Sinan says, "And Eesha"

[Public] Riven has seen a lot of Unot, Kamnestra and Eesha..

[Public] Nimizo says, "there's Eeshans too and Zutivians."

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Kamnestra, Eesha, and Soli. And Zin for men."

[Public] Michael Wincott as Nysem says, "yes zin is fairly represented in there"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Unot is sort of a recent thing."

[Public] Nimizo says, "oh? I always think of the Eagles when I think of Zin :P"

[Public] Nimizo knows Kamnestra and Eesha and Soli are the over all clan thing

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "So they don't like Zutiv? :P"

[Public] Sinan says, "Based on that, Amber, may I page you a private question after everything is finished here?"

[Public] Nimizo says, "no the Poly Zutiv HP is a bear"

[Public] Nimizo says, "but it's not as widely represented"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "No one said they didn't like Zutiv. He's not the most popular deity in the clan."

[Public] Nimizo says, "most of the bear clan dieties are revolving around family and honor"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "You may, Sinan."

[Public] Sinan says, "Okay. I'll wait until this is over. :)"

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Although you can argue that, to a certain extent, popular Bear deities have to do with their leaders. Aldrik was a very devout Eeshan. Sabine is/was a Solian prestess."

[Public] Nimizo didn't know Aldrik was Eeshan

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "She founded Eeshor in Eesha's honour."

[Public] Nimizo just knows the Kamnestran temple's always been half full of bears :)

[Public] Nimizo nods. Gotcha.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "Alright. Anything else? :)"

[Public] Nimizo says, "Thank you Amber!"

[Public] Joey has left this channel.

[Public] FERRET STAMPEDE Amber says, "If there are no further questions, I'll draw this to a close, and remind everyone we're moving onto the Chimeras, our roughshod pioneer clan, Wednesday night."