From FiranMUX

(very rough cut, cleaning it up, likely to split up too.)

Contents 1 Introduction 1.1 Perspective on GMing 1.1.1 Differences between an Event, a TinyPlot, an Adventure and a Quest 1.1.2 Tip 1: Don't be a storyteller 2 TPs and Quests That Didn't Work 2.1 Give Characters Meaningful Choices 2.2 Pro Tip: Don't start TPs with a single person getting the info 2.3 Things to Avoid! 2.4 GM Fairness 2.4.1 Playing by the Rules 3 Tinyplot Ideas 3.1 Circus Kidnapper TP Example 4 How to Get Your TP Approved

Introduction

Adam says, "Hello, everyone. In my typical at-the-last-minute manner, I have decided to run an impromptu workshop on tinyplotting: that is, being the game master for short events on the game. This comes up now because as part of the wizard-staff's push for more tinyplots (TPs), we are requiring every wizard to run a tinyplot before April 1 (some will be scheduled a bit later, though). And as I was thinking about that, I remembered that we had started doing a Guest Player Game Master thing a while ago. We invite a player who has a good idea for a TP or adventure to play the role of GM for a week or so and the staff supports her or him in this endeavor. And in turn, that led me to realize that not everyone knows /how/ to run a tinyplot or adventure. So here we are."

Adam says, "This will be an interactive workshop. That is, I don't want to be the only one talking for an hour or two. I'll talk for a bit, then I'll ask questions. You are free to lurk, but you will get far less out of the time. If you're here to participate, please sit in one of the Noble Benches. If you're here to lurk, please sit in the General Benches."

Adam says, "A few ground rules... It's interactive but it won't be fun for anyone if we all talk over each other. Let's use the line commands ('help line') to queue up your questions and comments EXCEPT when I ask for general comments or questions. I'll try to be clear about if we're in chaos mode or order mode, okay?"

|Petula says, "Okay. :)"
Empyrean says "Yes sir." *Firan*

Adam says, "Also, turn off your pagers and cell phones. Ha. No, just please don't do spammy stuff here. If you /have/ to take a messenger or whatever, step out and do it, but even that spams us."

|Cortik says, "Aye"
|Rodiste says, "Ayeaye!"
|Galen says, "nods. "Got it.""
|Kagi nods and gots it. "In the page you made, it implied that we should aim for tinyplots, and not adventures - but you're sort of using the words interchangeably here."
|Tyrin says, "I'm sorry.."
|Adam says, "I am being intentionally vague because I haven't gotten to the part where I explain the difference. Soon, Kagi."

Adam says, "Also, even though I seem to be using the SAY command, I'm really not, so it isn't in Firan or Ticanee or some other language you can't understand. You guys will have to use the OOC command to chat."

|Xamori says, "Does table talk spam you?"
|Adam says, "Nope."

Perspective on GMing

Adam says, "All right. Let me start by explaining that there are lots of different opinions on how to be a game master ("to GM"). In my terribly arrogant way, I think my way is best. I've been running tabletop games for 28 years. I've been running plots on Firan for 11. I accept that there are other ways. I occasionally get in debates about them with other people, including Steph! But here is not the place to debate that; I'd love to debate it on Public afterwards, though, if you think I'm full of crap."

Differences between an Event, a TinyPlot, an Adventure and a Quest

Adam says, "As Kagi pointed out, I talk about tinyplots (TPs) and adventures and quests and all kinds of species of fun. I briefly touched on them on the new Guest GM wiki page. Xamori, what do you think the difference is?"

Adam says, "And Kagi, do you think the difference matters? Why?"

|Adam says, "And did I pick idle 'participants'?"
|Kagi says, "I think the difference matters because of the scale of importance and the amount of staff resources."
|Xamori says, "So much for hiding behind Asishon! Short TPs seem tamer as well as simplistic in nature to me. Like Joe Blow comes into town selling fake iron ingots. Adventures and quests seem to have more of an element of danger as well as well as complex. Let's go get a Carnotti!"

Adam says, "For those who read the Guest GM page, I was sloppy there, too, so I'm gonna redefine some things right now to be in line with the way the staff has used the terms (tinyplot, adventure, quest) for years."

|Xamori says, "More twists and turns."

Adam says, "A quest is when we grab some people and take them out of the city and do tabletop-style gaming with them. A GM does almost everything for them. Describes what the players see, tells them what to @check, etc."

Adam says, "A tinyplot is a story that unfolds within the city. There's a certain amount of poking from the GMs but mostly the players run with it. It goes for at least a few days. There are probably a couple evenings when the GMs have to get more involved and run NPCs and have people make @checks. Most importantly, it tends to draw in all kinds of people."

|Empyrean raises his hand for a question.

Adam says, "An adventure (on Firan) is one of those coded things we set up for players to do without a GM. Like Heroes Journey or the Oracle. It's a machine that produces fun, and it's generally repeatable for many different sets of characters, but the same characters wouldn't necessarily enjoy doing it again."

Adam says, "Oh, and then we call certain things 'events.' This is the class of very short tinyplots we set up for a couple hours on a single evening, like a fire or raid."

|Adam says, "Empyrean?"
|Adam says, "(If you're gonna raise your hand, please have your question pre-typed so you're ready when I am. *grin*)"

Adam says, "So these things are all fun, right? But they differ in scope (how many people get involved), duration (how long they run), attention required (how much GM time they need), and resources (do things need to be coded for it?)."

|Empyrean says, "Is there a difference in ammount the way a TP and a Quest impact the game and/or plot as a whole?"
|Adam says, "Not really. A fire event run in a single hour could end up killing a Prince. A two-week quest could end up with the PCs not achieving their goals and coming home losers. I think we tend to /think/ that, the more personalized GM time you get, the more important this must be in terms of the story, but that doesn't have to be true."
|Empyrean says, "Cool. Thanks."
|Adam says, "You're more likely to see the really creative side of our staff, though, when you get their personalized GM time, so I suppose that helps reinforce the perception that quests are more important. Plus they cost CEEPEEZ! ;)"
|Adam says, "We're not likely to create a lost Ticanee totem pole for a one-hour fire event. We might do it for a two-week quest."

Adam says, "So, presumably you're all here because you want to be a GM. Who has GMed tabletop games?"

|Kagi raises his hand.
|Jia raises her hand. "Since 78'
|Asishon also has on and off.
|Tyrin DMs for Living Greyhawk :p
|Niobe has. Never ever. ;)
|Talikos actually just wants to see what the firan philosophy on GMing is, and has neer GM'd :)
|Cortik has.
|Empyrean says, "Not really."
|Rodiste says, "I did SWRPG back in the day. Way back."
|Adam says, "This is the 'Adam philosophy of GMing,' not the Firan philosophy. ;)"
|Talikos says, "APG, not FPG. check."
|Zhara has GMed online. Not here.

Adam says, "Of you who have GMed, who has ever had your story get entirely messed up by the players? (And that's a loaded question.)"

|Galen shakes her head. Nope. Never GMEd at all.
|Asishon says, "Wouldn't it be easier to ask who has NOT had the players derail their story for even one scene/plot/arc/minute?"
|Jia grins "I learned to not put a 'fixed' end as anytime you have a fixed end, it will go a completely different direction as players are ingenius types.
|Asishon says, "I'm pretty sure players can figure out how NOT to open a door with a knob and a giant arrow pointing at it."
|Kagi says, "Absolutely - Never had a set of sheep in my games - I sometimes spent a week writing out a detailed adventure just to have them skip off in another direction I didn't anticipate at all."
|Zhara raises both hands. "And by the others I'd recruited to help play out the Story for the players. they ruined it by not being active or showing up to interact with the players anymore."
|Cortik says, "I've lost two weeks worth of backstory because the players decided to go to Vegas once :P"
|Anorna has totally messed it up for a GM before! :D
|Talikos says, "darn these peoples with their independent wills and minds."
|Galen is very fond of destroying a GM's hope that it might go one way and it went another way. :>

Adam says, "I say it's a loaded question because I don't think it's Your Story to begin with. Parts of it might be. It's a collaborative process, for sure. But you're one person and you have 4-6 players for a quest (maybe a few more) and you could have dozens and dozens for a city-wide tinyplot, and your story doesn't get to trump theirs."

|Tyrin has found myself running an event at a convention, only to have the table veer off in a totally wrong direction ... lost the story but had to improvise combats or scenarios to help them find their way back. I didn't have players totally change my story on me though..

Adam says, "The FUN of being here as a player is to create a story."

Tip 1: Don't be a storyteller

Adam says, "So tip #1: Don't be a storyteller. You're not here to tell a story. You're here to enable the players to tell a story."

Adam says, "A lot of GMs approach planning a tinyplot as a story-writing exercise. They inevitably frustrate themselves when the players ignore it all. They inevitably frustrate their players when they aren't prepared for the crazy things players love to do."

Adam says, "I've done it. I did it for years. I would write all this back-story about the evil villains and then spend hours and hours planning out all kinds of specific details of the lair and stuff. Then the players do something different. And I'm not just talking Dungeons & Dragons, where there's a certain expectation of 'just go along with it and it'll be fun.'"

|Kagi says, "Shadowrun and Paranoia were my biggest banes and biggest enjoyments to GM."

Adam says, "So, if you're planning a TP for Firan, we don't want a story. A little backstory might be interesting as set-up but realize that the players will probably never figure most of it out on their own anyway."

Adam says, "I know a lot of you were at War this year. If you went on any missions, you saw my GMing style. What do you think is the #1 most important thing for players to do in any kind of GMed thing?"

|Jia says, "be open for the unexpected"
|Asishon says, "Communicate"
|Zhara says, "Act according to sheet."
|Xamori says, "Pay attention?"
|Galen says, "Have fun."
|Talikos says, "SFTU and listen for instructions before blathering."
|Talikos says, "Xamori said it nicer than me. *halo*"
|Adam laughs. "All great answers, but those are more procedural than what I am trying to get at. I mean, as a GM goal, what do I want to accomplish?"
|Galen says, "Let the players have fun."
|Galen says, "Let them create their own story to brag about."
|Adam says, "Closer."
|Zhara says, "Create Intrigue."
|Adam says, "What is fun for players?"
|Zhara says, "A.k.a. Roleplay"
|Galen says, "Roleplay. Action. Adventure. Not-boring-things."
|Kagi says, "To roleplay and interact with the world and creation of the GM."
|Talikos says, "feeling like what they're doing matters."
|Adam says, "/How/ do they create their own story? /What/ is interesting to role-play?"
|Adam says, "Very close, Talikos. How does a GM do that?"
|Zhara says, "consequence to actions."
|Adam says, "Yes, almost there!"
|Talikos says, "be open to them throwing curveball ways to attack a setup."
|Galen says, "By doing reactions to their actions."
|Galen says, "Let them do what they do, then respond to it, etc."
|Zhara says, "Affecting game change."
|Adam says, "Game change is a part of it, but I think players often do non-huge-game-changing things and still feel that they had the time of their life."
|Zhara says, "Character development."
|Kagi says, "An element of risk - by having the players invest something they value, they will attempt to either retrieve that, or decide if that investment is big enough for the risk."
|Niobe says, "Make them think. Make them chose things."
|Talikos says, "everyone likes to contribute to the scene and feel like 'hey, I did that', whatever that is."

Adam says, "I will submit that exploring the GM's world and creation is NOT the primary goal of most players on Firan. It's part of it, certainly, but it's too passive to be fun for a lot of people."

|Kagi nods to Niobe - "Free choice, if the players have no choice, you try to force the storyline, you take that away and it's no fun for anyone.

Adam says, "Players want to make decisions that matter."

Adam says, "If you come with a fully prepared story and move them around through your story world and they never make a decision that matters, they might see some cool stuff, but they won't feel it's THEIR story. They'll go home and shrug."

Adam says, "And, man, I'd rather players hate what I did than just shrug. ;)"
|Talikos says, "any publicity is good publicity."
|Adam says, "Heh. No. ;)"

Adam says, "So how do we as GMs /plan/ ways for players to make choices that matter during our games?"

Adam says, "Anorna?"

|Adam says, "You've been quiet. How can you plan for this sort of thing?"
|Adam thinks Anorna has been quiet cuz she's idle. Anyone? How can you plan for it?
|Empyrean says, "Presenting a constant conflict or cause and effect situation?"
|Yolette says, "planning for multiple choices at given points?"
|Talikos isn't sure you can plan it, becuase then you're pathing out the story in a predestined manner. But you can be ready for any points where you can say 'ok, decision time'.
|Jia says, "There has to be some leeway for player's choices if you have a set goal...it's like a find your adventure book"
|Anorna says, "I am sorry. :("
|Nestra says, "Oops. I guess there's something going on here!"
|Jargen says, "Hmm./"
|Adam says, "Someone page Nestra. =)"
|Rodiste says, "I got it, Adam."
|Anorna says, "Belated, I would come up with a list of outcomes or places to go based on outcomes."
|Anorna says, "Belatedly*"
|Nestra waves! We shall go practice tackleball elsewhere then. Thanks Rodiste!
|Adam says, "Yeah, the 'many-universes' style of GMing works for a lot of people. It relies on you being able to out-think and out-crazy your players though. I don't even try anymore. ;)"
|Petula nods.
|Asishon says, "You can out-think us but never out-crazy!"
|Adam says, "Exactly!"
|Galen says, "Nope, I think we have the out-thinking done as well."

Adam says, "To make players make decisions that matter, you have to know what they care about."

Adam says, "Note that I mean 'what the players care about,' not 'what the characters care about,' though the latter often follows the former. But not always! In this past war season you saw some examples of players who wanted good deaths for their characters. The characters? They probably wanted to live!"

Adam says, "As a GM planning a big fun thing, you can't always know who will be in it. Like when we ran Red Bloom, we didn't know who would wander by the fountain and get infected. But we DID have a pretty good feeling that players would want to a) not get sick, b) figure out what was making them sick, and c) find a cure. We guessed at player motivation."

Adam says, "Ever wonder why so many TPs seem to be disasters of some sort? That's why. Because we know you'll care what happens. It's a cop-out if we do it too much, and we're trying to get away from so many of those."

Adam says, "When Steph ran the Panther Bones quest, she figured out who would be going FIRST, then figured out how to challenge each player, how to make each player feel they could make a significant contribution."

TPs and Quests That Didn't Work

Adam says, "So, let me shut up for a bit. Let's talk about TPs and quests and whatnot that didn't work. Let's not make it personal because assuredly someone put their heart and soul into running some thing that went awry -- maybe even me or someone here. But I think we can talk objectively about what works and what doesn't and get specific and not be mean about it. Tell me about something you've been involved with on Firan that didn't go right, and tell us why you think it didn't work."

|Zhara says, "Do we get in line?"
|Adam says, "Oh, let's just chat for now. Screw lines. Lines suck."
|Galen says, "Agreed. ^.^"
|Adam says, "Fu queues. ;)"
|Zhara laughs. Ok. My favorite TP on the game was one I didn't expect to be in. The Nekaht thing. It's changed Zhara, heart and soul.
|Galen is gonna be honest here- plots on firan that didn't go right?
|Galen says, "Anytime a griffon hit the Junik mansion..."
|Zhara says, "It also broke my heart, because it died out, and there was so much character switching that I had to keep telling the players how I was important to them."
|Jia says, "the problem I have is that it seems to be the same people who get to go on a quest and it causes hurt feelings."
|Niobe realizes there are probably some she was in. But even when things go bad I enjoy myself.
|Adam says, "Is it? Who has gone one three quests?"
|Asishon covers the ears of the 5th! "So things that haven't gone right...riots... riots and riots, because you had to be a prince/General to get any reaction even if you were arresting people in the middle of it. Things that went well was war season missions, since even if you were a sentry, any random action could have huge impact even if all you did was choose to follow orders."
|Talikos is gonn get right up and say it, all the war seasons I was a part of back in the day didn't go 'right'. But I think that was shiningly fixed this year (though said from afar as I didn't hve a char there). So no gripes.
|Tyrin says, "the one that I found the hardest was the pox virus. It lasted for quite a while and was on during festival .. when the players wished their characters to be having fun and playing games. The mood was dour, and RP became limited to OOC after a few days... or very short scenes.. a room full of idle people."

Adam grins at Asishon. "Riots aren't exactly a tinyplot. They're a horrible consequence of unpopular decisions and sometimes there's nothing to be done by the soldiers."

|Anorna gets disappointed when characters go on TPs, do so much, and they get back and it seems like it's not-so-much to other people. "Like the followup wasn't really accepted or paid any mind to by the rest of the grid. In about a few days, it fizzles out completely and it's like the TP never existed."
|Zhara agrees totally with that.
|Galen says, "Tyrin, I will fully and wholly admit the Pox was maybe a bit annoying- but then, my alt doesn't know how to keep her mouth shut. But then, yes, there's Red Bloom. This was most annoying, ICly and OOCly, because getting stuck in the chimeran clinic, with the same people, got boring."

Adam says, "Okay, so after you tell me a problem, everyone has to propose a solution. What should the GM have done differently?"

|Cortik says, "What was wrong with griffons hitting a Junik Mansion? Not that I was on for it. But the story seems... interesting."
|Xamori says, "I think the snow thing wasn't too kosher."
|Adam says, "The Junik Mansion gets pounded by sheer bad luck, I swear! We had randomizer code and it just kept picking that place!"
|Galen says, "I think the code, then, Adam, needs looked at. :)"
|Tyrin went on a quest to hopefully end the pox .. but that meant some characters were there for RL weeks. I think a quest that negatively impacts RP should have a narrower time limit ... a week .. two tops.
|Talikos says, "well there's an example; GM could have made a quiet executive decision and rerouted the griffon ;)"
|Xamori says, "Being forced to tunnel out...when staying at home where there is fire to be had.."
|Anorna says, "I think there should be more follow-up emits that /forces/ the playerbase to care. Or more social adjustments. Or something that will definitely make it worth while for those who went on the TP to come back to."
|Zhara thinks in the case of the Nekaht, you just need to find some absolutely stable players willing to commit to seeing that through, and have the players running those characters to a weekly documenting of their sheets, to make sure everything is up to date if they do have to hand off the character.
|Talikos doens't see how you can force people to care, really. In many cases, if you are not the star, it's blah blah woop for you what makes you so special, you saw a GIANT big woop! etc.
|Empyrean says, "Ya. What happened to the NEkaht?"
|Asishon says, "So for me the biggest thing is the idea that rank has anything to do with leadership ability. Haha Talikos Steph actually did that during War season and rerouted a griffon. :P"

Adam grins at Talikos. "But that's cheating! It might seem 'fair' for the Juniks, but it isn't fair for the person who ends up getting hit by the griffon instead!" But we're talking about single decision now and not GMing in general. Let's talk about 'fudging' in a bit.

|Tyrin thinks in the Nekaht situation ... more speeches, and less secrecy. Stuff happens to entertain people .. but to have so much decreed an IC secret turns it into a 'members only club'
|Talikos says, "mmm. I'd debate the cheating aspect. More like 'fudging in the name of overall fair-ness perception'. but that's fine.Mmm, fudge."
|Niobe says, "Nekaht are at home. Supposed to be a diplomatic thing going to them some day. (All from various speeches I know that)"
|Asishon says, "To Anorna: I don't think you can cause the playerbase to care about anything. I've tried money, SP, whores, and glory and failed to get people involved in things."
|Talikos would care if someone gave him money and boobies. Just for the record.
|Zhara says, "You know what might be cool? It's hard to follow so much on the game. IF you're into a specific TP going on, you could have a board for ooc/ic info about it. Like.. postings about what's happening in the plot, and future involvement. Like the Nekaht."

Adam says, "The Nekaht plot aborted suddenly when key staff who were running the plot idled out and we didn't have the staff resources to keep it going. So, yeah, that sucks, but I don't think anyone needs to be told 'Yeah, don't lose your GM' as a general rule for good GMing."

|Jia says, "to be honest, most everyone wants to make a difference... to have their chance to shine so to speak... and when it's the same people over and over... yeah, maybe they have had their characters for 5 years.... you know the 15 minutes of fame type thing... it gets to where you don't care anymore about the plots run because they are not important to you... what the admin can do... I don't know, perhaps make who gets to go on quests a bit more random"
|Zhara says, "And if you wanted to join a TP, you could kind of update yourself."
|Cortik says, "Yeah, during the fire raid, the first firebomb was actually randomly chosen to hit... Cortik Junik. Steph thought the playerbase would think the staff was just picking on us and hit Al instead"
|Zhara says, "Adam, I didn't mean for my comment to come off that way. It was my favorite, and I STILL YEARN for that TP to be ressurrected."
|Adam says, "Jia, I asked earlier but I think you missed it: Which players have been on 3 or more quests?"
|Asishon says, "Jia: I think staff is addressing that by pushing more Wizards to be actively running plots not just doing the 'keep the grid alive' stuff. :)"
|Asishon says, "Zafir!"
|Asishon says, "But that's over like 10 years."
|Niobe says, "Like with Jamie's recent one that was asking for volunteers and Jon asked for some too I think."
|Jia missed it... not that she can anymore, Melani...
|Jia says, "Tanya"
|Galen noticed something, with Jamie- /male PCs/. Jamie @mailed a bunch of us females that had volunteered and is like, we have way to many girls, but so not enough guys. I don't know if this is just player choice, or what.
|Niobe says, "Now for the quests that people pay 200 CPs for staff doesn't really have a say in who is ICly chosen to go right?"
|Adam says, "We always have a say. ;)"
|Cortik says, "I would totally be up for Jamie's TP, but the time won't work for me at all unfortunately. :("
|Niobe ahhs. Just curious.
|Adam says, "But generally we tend to leave decisions of who goes to people ICly. If they're choosing the same people, that's IC. We do encourage people not to take the same old fools though."
|Galen nods at Cortik. "Me being who I am, and wanting to be a GGM, alas, I'm always peeking into TPs done by a variety of admin. Let's see. Adam, Dex, Shelley, etc, etc, etc. Lisa. :)
|Kagi says, "I think probably the best and worst plot I've ever been in was a kid plot - the first part of it was great, but it seemed like once it got past the halfway mark, and players weren't doing what was expected, that it just resulted in things going haywire and an illness that kept kids locked in a room for a RL month."
|Adam says, "I think there might be a handful of people who have been on three quests. I think there have been lots more people who have been on only one though. I think it's more a matter of how few quests we have run and the perceived value of them. We're running more these days so people will get more opportunities to go on them."
|Kagi says, "Which leads me to say: A good GM always has an exit strategy if things go nuclear."
|Asishon nods, "I think that's the biggest thing. When there's only maybe one or two quests a year. It's a lot easier to be irritated about who gets picked than if there's a dozen to half dozen. Because then at least you're more than likely having a direct impact on the quest even if you don't go. Like Arik's gone on very few 'quests' but he's usually there when they leave/come back and knows at least one person on them."

Give Characters Meaningful Choices

Adam says, "Okay, so more than a few of those plots went awry when players were not given opportunities to make decisions that matter. When you're stuck in a room and told to role-play, players are just biding time till the next decision, right? If there's not a decision to come, then players get bored and dissatisfied and even angry. Or if there's only one 'right' decision, then there's really no meaningful decision to make, right?"

|Galen says, "Right."

Adam says, "Here's a term from my game design studies: deprotagonize. You know what a protagonist is, right? A character you care about. To deprotagonize a character means to make him a character that you don't care about. By taking away a player's ability to make meaningful choices about a character, you make him quit caring: about the character, about the story, about the game."

Adam says, "Disaster plots like the blizzard and diseases tend to isolate people in their houses. The only decision players make there is 'should I risk going out or not?' Sometimes, a clever GM can make that a meaningful decision. Usually, the answer is a resounding 'yes, of course' or 'no, of course not,' in which case it's no decision at all."

|Talikos THOUGHT it got quiet.
|Jia had a lot of fun during the blizzard plot.

Adam says, "During the end of the blizzard plot, when everything was flooding due to the melt, I GMed a jail break-out. We don't usually like jail break-out attempts because everyone and their sister thinks THEY should be the one to break out of jail this time, but the blizzard seemed to offer a unique opportunity to do it. The players faced some seriously hard choices during my GMed plot. They had to really decide if it was worth the risk at a few points. Characters almost died."

|Galen says, "Adam, this is a non-consent game, yes? Character's dying is a risk we take dailey."
|Adam says, "Sure, but you know the odds are pretty slim. =)"
|Cortik says, "unless you're at war."
|Talikos says, "true, but there's a big diff between making an active choice that puts you in harms way and LOLGRIFFONONHED"
|Adam says, "War Season is about the only time when the body count piles up, yes."
|Adam says, "Talikos, this may surprise you, but I totally agree."
|Talikos says, "why would it surprise me! I'm right!"
|Talikos er. inner voice.
|Adam says, "Cuz you didn't expect me to be right, too? ;)"
|Adam says, "I am not a fan of 'rocks fall, everybody dies' plots where people die without making any decisions."
|Talikos grin.
|Adam says, "However, the staff also had to make the Shamibelian Menace /menacing/ and bombing Anarinuell wakes everyone up. Also realize that the Shamis were not Kamikazes, crashing their griffons into the Junik Mansion. Your leaders /chose/ to shoot them down, and there were /consequences/ for that."
|Adam says, "And getting bombed was a consequence of not taking Ellish, and Ellish was a consequence of the Shamibelians invading and occupying the Republic, and the invasion was a consequence of Firanos losing a bet to Zutiv, and he lost the bet because of... well, you know where to find the story. ;)"
|Jia says, "darn that Zutiv"
|Adam says, "Damn that Elianos."
|Empyrean says, "He should have used his XP better."
|Talikos blames the parents.
|Adam says, "None of this means that getting DED-ified for no reason of yours is any fun at all. And that's important to remember as a GM. Being right doesn't mean you're a good GM. ;)"
|Kagi says, "If he had just spent 200 cp to get a quest..."
|Jia says, "but CPs are so hard to come by, Kagi"
|Talikos says, "that's the fine line though. being right in the 'dice fall where they may' sense, then the right in the 'perceived fair and reasonable' sense."

Adam says, "Okay, so there were other problems mentioned here. Let me talk about some of them. One of them is 'sharing the fun.' You don't want to cherry-pick the same five people for every event, quest, or tinyplot! Figure out how to share the love. Figure out how to make opportunities for other people. Figure out how NOT to let it become the IC decision of, say, the Clan Council about who goes on your quest, cuz it'll be the five people that the Clan Council trusts, if there are that many. ;)"

|Jia doesn't think the CC trusts the other members of the CC

Adam says, "I can't tell you how many times we've written tinyplots that hinged on a single piece of information or a single item and had one character BOGART THAT THING and not share it with anyone else, then idle out, or just keep it to themselves forever, for whatever reason."

Pro Tip: Don't start TPs with a single person getting the info

Adam says, "So, pro tip: Don't start TPs with a single person getting information. Spread out your information among a bunch of people, or even make it public!"

Adam says, "Say what you will about Shami firebomb raids, but everyone knows about them, and everyone gets to react /some how/."

|Kagi randomly notes that Banian's Adventure Club would have been cool to fit with this. :)
|Galen nods at Kagi.
|Niobe does however hate it when the First shuffles everyone off from stuff. Or tries to. ;)
|Zhara says, "I worry that that person has been me in the past. But, too often, I get.. OMG, here, here's some information. but don't tell ANYONE!!!"
|Talikos @barbrady's. NOTHING TO SEE HERE PEOPLE! (Sounds of chimera roaring, house falls down) MOVE ALONG!
|Kagi says, "Players have the ability to make consquences of those actions though."

Adam says, "Zhara and Anorna brought up similar problems: lack of follow-through. The plot isn't over when it's over. It's hard to /control/ the aftermath of an event though. You can do little things, like have the consequences of a plot last beyond the event itself. Panther Bones had many lasting consequences, but not all of them are known to the public. You saw one though: a 100' Ticanee totem pole! But now it's splinters. Sadness. I think the best way to make sure there's a story after your plot is done is to make sure that the overarching goal of the plot is to change something in the world, even if it's relatively small. Then the aftermath is simply the effect of the change on the world."

|Niobe goes back to idling though. Dratted children
|Adam says, "Other than Talikos' fairness topic, which we'll discuss in a bit, does the problem that each of you brought up fit into one of those categories? Did I miss anyone?"
|Kagi thinks follow through covered the issue with the super long kid illness.
|Adam nods to Kagi, "And, more importantly, people getting isolated didn't get to make meaningful decisions."
|Galen has a thought- aren't @911's almost like a very 'tiny' plot scene? Like, can't a decision during a @911 change the RP that was going to happen?
|Asishon says, "Looks great, on an aside note Adam that I think is soemthing you do that's important. Up front at the beginning of your event/plot/adventure. Convey OOCly to your players your method/methodology. With Adam at war it helped a lot of us to know what we needed to provide him. Since like he said there's a lot of approaches and there's none wrong. But it can be huge in helping characters understand which of their actions are important. Knowing if you need to ooc ask for a roll vs having it picked out of your pose is pretty crucial.""
|Adam says, "@911's are more of a GM reacting to a player for a single moment in time, usually. There's not any kind of planning a GM can do for that. But you absolutely can make things more interesting by remembering some of these ideas."
|Galen says, "That's what I was thinking, Adam. A simple choice of going left or right - not or calling a 911- changes everything."
|Adam nods to Asishon. "I like to make it clear how GM and players should communicate and what the procedure of play is before starting. I also like to make it clear what I expect as a GM out of players, and find out from players what they expect of me. I mean, why wouldn't you? But so many people fail to have that conversation."
|Talikos says, "outcomes can definitely change, but not every @911 is about a world-shaking event. Sometimes it's just contesting a social imp :)"

Adam says, "Okay, let me sum up a bit, then we can talk about fairness in GMing."

Adam says, "Players show up to your events because they want to tell a story. Most players don't want to be told a story that doesn't involve them as /players/ making decisions that matter. Deciding to fend off an attacker is not usually a real decision. Choosing to take the right or left passage without any information about what is down there is not a real decision. Making real decisions requires that the players /understand the consequences/."

Adam says, "Repeat: the players understand the consequences."

Adam says, "Sometimes I will TELL people what the consequences are. For example: 'You can try to fly closer to the walls, but you'll be at diff 9 instead of diff 7 for avoiding damage, but I'll give you a 6 diff instead of 8 on blowing it up.'"

Adam says, "Or: 'If you make a speech shaming the mob, they /will/ get pissed and riot.'"

Adam says, "It's a GM style thing. Some GMs like to just let players discover ICly what the consequences are. I don't like that myself. I'm a bit of a meta-gamer that way. I don't care about characters as much as I care about players."

Things to Avoid!

Adam says, "Here are some things that deprotagonize characters and disenfranchise players. Avoid them, if you can."

Adam says, "Making choices FOR players: railroading the story, forcing them to make choices, manipulating them subtly so they think they're making a choice but they're doing what you want (you evil puppetmaster, you)."

Adam says, "Inflicting consequences on players without giving them any decisions to make that relate to those consequences (e.g., here's a griffon on your head)."

Adam says, "Trapping players for a long time without offering them continual opportunity to make meaningful decisions (e.g., you're in jail, you're quarantined, you're snowed in, you're trapped in a mine)." Adam says, "Disenfranchising players by excluding them from your fun unintentionally: because you gave the info to someone who isn't gonna share it; because you let a Clan Leader make all the decisions about who goes on the Super Fun Adventure Quest; because you designed a tinyplot that can only be enjoyed by people with tattoos."

Adam says, "You can't write a story ahead of time without being tempted to railroad players back into the tracks of your storyline, so stop writing stories for the game. Write a book instead. ;)"

Adam says, "Best, consider the goals of the /players/ (not characters) who will be involved in your tinyplot and figure out things you can do to Turn Up The Volume on their choices. Figure out decision points and make up a few key non-player characters to bump into them and give them information to make choices."

Adam says, "Investigation plots are dull! There are few meaningful choices to make. Easter egg hunts /can be/ dull for the same reason. Give them the information for free. Then make them make hard choices about that information."

|Adam says, "Yap yap yap. Questions?"
|Rodiste listening with rapt attention.
|Talikos says, "I liked the point about a book, and I think it would tie into Anorna's point re. follow up. It could be good for a GM to plan some aftershocks (even a 1 day tp or a few emits) around a recently concluded plot, just to give something of an epilogue."
|Galen ums. "What about religious plots?"
|Adam says, "Religion is just a topic. What of religious plots?"
|Galen says, "Ones that affect the way we view a god/goddess, maybe?"
|Kagi has a couple random one line tinyplot ideas.
|Adam says, "We're not gonna let anyone start bringing a deity /as a character/ into their plots as a plot device, any more than we'd let you bring, say, Galen in as a plot device. The gods have players and agendas and stuff."
|Galen says, "That's what I was thinking."
|Kagi says, "Which could be used to examine these ideas in context to what you're talking about."
|Adam says, "If you want to give players an opportunity to change how they view the gods, sure! Sounds cool! But you have to do it with the tools at your disposal. And the deities are not your puppets. They're played by real players. You'd have to bring them in as real players and I can guarantee you that things get ugly when deities get involved in mortal affairs."
|Galen says, "Yeah, I think we've seen that."
|Adam says, "The problem with bringing in the deities is that they hold the universe in balance. To completely make up a fictional example: Say Bob prays to Srenna and asks her to destroy the swords of the Shamibelians. Seems like a reasonable request, right? If she did that, Drik would be mad. The Shamis are his creatures. Then there's a god war. Guess who he takes it out on? Srenna, a powerful goddess, or Bob, a dumb-ass mortal?"
|Galen says, "Byebye Bob."
|Adam says, "Yeah."
|Kagi says, "Poor Bobbet."
|Adam says, "Deities tend to go at each other in very quiet, passive-aggressive ways. ;)"
|Adam says, "So that's what makes them TERRIBLE plot devices for your tinyplots."
|Adam says, "If you want religion, make up a priest NPC with crazy ideas."
|Adam says, "That is, stick to mortals."
|Asishon says, "For the record I believe our official designation according to Zutiv is 'ants'."
|Adam says, "Also, bringing in deities overshadows the player-characters. Instant deprotagonization. Who cares what Bob does in a story if Bob gets zorted by Zutiv or, really, /at all/. I mean, look! Zutiv! Who cares what Bob does!"
|Adam says, "The best NPCs are ones that are memorable but less powerful than the PCs. =)"
|Adam says, "Any other comments or questions before we move on?"
|Tyrin says, "there is a lot of story to Firan, history and forgotten things now discussed as secrets. Is there a possibility of attaining 'Relics,' or forgotten items from the past to dredge up old story lines with new quests?"
|Adam says, "For wizard-run TPs, sure. I don't see how we could do it easily with player-run TPs. You don't /know/ the secrets, right?"
|Adam says, "We already do this a fair amount, though."
|Tyrin shouldn't know them... some yeah..
|Adam says, "I mean, why write a new plot if you can recycle an old, forgotten one?"

GM Fairness

Adam says, "Okay, let's talk about fairness. I want to know what everyone's idea of a fair GM is."

|Zhara coughs NEKAHT cought.
|Kagi says, "A fair GM is one open to ideas, not willing to get bogged down in arguments with a single party, and willing to follow through with the consequences even if they are undesirable either on the player or gm's part."
|Aziza says, "Willing to admit when they may have oocly misinterpretted something. And even if the wizard can't take back an action towards a player, being willing to privately take accountability."
|Tyrin says, "A fair GM is someone who leaves decisions to rolls of the dice, but modifies them for the IC situation without regard to how well liked that character is by NPCs."
|Empyrean must excuse himself! Thanks Adam.
|Xamori says, "A fair GM treats all players equal even if all characters are not."
|Talikos this fairness is a fuzzy concept. often, what's perceived to be fair is 'when I win'.
|Petula says, "Honestly, I'd say fair changes with the group you're GMing for, yeah."
|Tyrin nods in agreement with Xamori.
|Aziza says, "agreed"
|Adam says, "Tyrin, Xamori, if I treat you all equally badly, is that fair?"
|Adam says, "And is it a definition of 'fair GM' worth hanging onto?"
|Xamori says, "I figured the Golden Rule was a given."
|Tyrin says, "No... but all decisions made ... especially if negative to the player/character ... should be understood as just, or reasonable .."
|Tyrin would say to the player affected, but some players aren't reasonable and will never see it as just.
|Aziza thinks the definition of 'fair' in general can be pretty debatable on whats fair and whats not unfortunately.
|Tyrin says, "the same is true for positive affecting decisions. Other players who see player 'A' made a shining example of should feel that it was reasonable for such action. Otherwise calls of favoritism and such will haunt you."
|Adam says, "Well, if that's true, Aziza -- if everyone has a different idea of what 'fair' is -- how do you comport yourself in a reasonable manner?"
|Talikos thinks in order to be perceived a fair gm, you have to be a trusted gm.
|Adam says, "That's a bit circular, Talikos. To be perceived as trusted, you have to be fair."
|Petula raises her hand?
|Adam says, "Talk freely."
|Tyrin says, "to be trusted, you need to be seen as doing it for the interests of the players rather than yourself."
|Aziza says, "I think one thing that would help is wizards who are part of a regular 'group' when it comes to TP's. Meaning if Wizard A is obvious friends with playcer C and D and E... someone else does the judging and GMing that way there's no hint of favoritism. Honestly the biggest thing for me i being willing to have a GM who's willing to discuss possible outcomes depending on the rolls of the dice. ANd even willing to just give a simple paged apology if something was misunderstoof. I've seen it too many times where a GM misunderstands something the player is the one who pays when they did nothing wrong and everyone else apologizes except the one who did the misunderstanding. It tends to jade a person."
|Adam says, "I maintain that you can do things CLEARLY in the interest of the players and be seen as unfair. It happened to me when I retconned the first calamitous battle at Fort Zayes."
|Aziza says, "but you apologized. You took accountabillity for a simple oops."
|Tyrin was a corpse then.. I /greatly/ appreciated that Retcon.
|Aziza says, "Alot of the wiz's dont do that."
|Talikos says, "its definitely a chicken and egg thing. what I'm getting at though if the player trusts your decisionmaking, they'll feel it's fairer. so then the question becomes 'how do you build trust'.. and I think that's doing a lot of the basics with new players, like explaining rationale for decisions, what you expect from them, they can expect from you, make a point of showing consequence. then the next time that player's running something with you, the trust is there."
|Aziza says, "being approachable helps too."
|Talikos thinks being known as a 'fair gm' builds over time.
|Adam says, "Aziza, I think you will find that the staff makes Herculean efforts to avoid GMing for their friends. Or, if they do for whatever reason, having other wizards take part in the decision-making process so that there's oversight and accountability."
|Tyrin would say the same holds true for old players too Talikos. Those not in the inner circle can easily feel discriminated against, or ignored during TPs
|Jia says, "that is one reason I have stayed on this game after moving on like I have from other games. The admin here can't be using a TP to benefit their own characters so everything is a lot more fair. A lot of wizzes elsemu only are doing things to profit their own character or their clique. Firan doesn't have that problem which is one thing I appreciate. Yes, I know this sounds like a 180 from earlier but it's not."
|Zhara says, "Adam, wait, why were you seen as unfair for that retcon? I think that's confusing a lot of us. And I think you might not realize the power of know what you've experienced would help us be better gms."
|Aziza nods, "I have to agree, I've been here longer than any other mush and its because of that difference. I just think it would be nice if more of the saff were as approachable and more willing to take accountability. Not all of them are or have or even will."
|Tyrin nods in agreement with Jia. It is the Admin the fairness from them I have witnessed in the past five years. Although ICly there is a lot of corruption, and a lot more animosity than previously between those in the inner circle and those who are not ... ... it is still fun to play.
|Adam says, "A player was mad that I retconned the event. They felt that I was retconning it to give you guys Ellish, and that it wasn't fair. There are players on this game who did not want Ellish to be won, believe it or not. Also some who did not want Ellish to be won /this year/ or /by certain people/."
|Aziza says, "because they felt it was only going to be there to stroke a certain cliche's ego's? I heard the same thing."
|Tyrin says, "there are always people who will want what others have, but aren't willing to work for it."
|Aziza says, "working for it is half the fun"
|Adam says, "Approachability is something a game loses as it grows. There's just a lot more players than wizards. And we're really busy. I spend a lot of time talking with players to try to make up for my busy staffers, who do grunt work so I don't have to."
|Zhara nods. Amen, Tyrin. Or, those who just try and try and couldn't, and feel sore others could. But i the end, we all do our best. Selfishness, though. That's what accused Adam.
|Aziza says, "I guess the biggest thing is it would mean alot at least fr me personally is if something happens where a wizard makes a mistake is hearing the apology from /that/ wizard not 5 other ones. I mean it means alot to know you care about your players but a simple 'i'm sorry' from the one who made the mistake would do wonders."

Playing by the Rules

Adam says, "I think fairness is playing by the rules, whatever they are. Perception of fairness, as Talikos points out, is more important than fairness. That means that communication and transparency are vitally important."

Adam says, "Playing by the rules requires that everyone be on the same page about what those rules are. As a GM for a small event, /talk/ to your players. Tell them how you want to run things. Tell them your expectations of them and find out theirs of you. Then stick to your rules."

|Aziza says, "Does that include all players even new ones that come in?"
|Aziza says, "in the middle? Or do you expect players to relay those rules?"

Adam says, "I thought the retcon of Fort Zayes Part 1 was fair because I said, all along, that I'd FIX any major code problems. I didn't think you guys lost that battle because of your choices. You got slaughtered because I messed up a bunch of things as a GM. There's an implicit contract that, if bad stuff happens because a GM messes up, we'll make it right. So we made it right, told you exactly what we'd done wrong, and made sure it didn't happen the next day, when we reran the battle."

|Adam says, "We're a community. It's everyone's responsibility to help everyone get along and have fun."
|Zhara says, "Which is exactly what inspired trust."
|Tyrin found as a GM ... even if you softball something for players to avoid a TPK ... some people become angry ... Modifying rules mid game, for whatever reason ... leads to perceptions of unfairness or us vs them. That is something I desperately try to avoid now.
|Aziza says, "On the other hand if he hadn't there would have been even more people upset cause of things being kept as they were even due to code glitches."
|Zhara says, "I wonder if the GMs on this game realize how far they've come. It didn't used to be such a timely thing, deciding who was dead or captured. Used to be you could sit for months, in painful limbo. That seems not to happen anymore, which is really really fair. Tineliness is fair."
|Talikos says, "dead becuse of a code glitch != dead cause you decided 'Imma gonna charge that fort with a spork'"
|Ignatia thinks that players were just not used to a war season like this one, and in one way that one battle made it seem more real.
|Tyrin thinks you guys made the right decision with the Retcon. I was comforting a number of other corpses who's players were bawling RL due to their character's death.

Adam says, "There's a style of GMing called Illusionism, in which the GM hides a lot of meta information from the players and does anything they like to make the players have a good time. Often, it involves a lot of lying and dice-fudging. It's Illusionism if the players don't know that the GM is doing this, and they truly believe that their decisions matter... but their decisions don't matter because the GM will make the story come out the way they like. They justification is that the players are having fun. And, really, if the players are having fun, fine. It's all good. But if the players 'see behind the curtain' and realize they're being effed with, it stops being fun for a lot of people."

Adam says, "It's called Participationism if the players are in on the 'secret' -- they're complicit in the 'game' of the GMing making the story fun and pulling the strings to make it so."

Adam says, "Illusionism, in my opinion, is not fair. Partipationism is fair. But perhaps not everyone's cup of tea."

|Rodiste says, "Hmm, interesting to hear it put like that. I certainley have participated on both sides of that divide."
|Tyrin says, "How do you get past the player perception of 'wait and see what the GM says before we move on, or make decisions?'"

Adam says, "And I think that one player who hated the Ft. Zayes retcon thought I was playing Illusionism with them. I wasn't. I'd said all along that we'd retcon disasters due to code bugs and GM errors like that -- and did so in the scrimmage where everyone 'flee'd out of the room. ;)"

|Adam says, "I don't understand, Tyrin. What is the player doing wrong?"
|Talikos thinks the danger with Illusionism is if you're dealing with something where Bad Things can happen. Happyfuntime Ferret party, sure. But when things are on the line players really want their decisions to count, good or ill.
|Tyrin says, "when a GM gives tidbits of info, but doesn't wish to lead the players. Sometimes the players though wish to wait .. and see before they act. At what point do you know when to stop telling the story, and wait for the player to pick it up.. .. or is this what happens at times when players keep something secret and don't carry on?"
|Jia has a question. Would there be a time when for the good of the game such as a major character dying that would cause a major plot change if it would be fudged? For instance, if we didn't have half a dozen at the front who could have lead the army, would Donos' death 'averted'?
|Adam says, "Well, remember what I said earlier. Stop dropping breadcrumbs of information. Hand them the loaf of bread. Investigations are not fun. ;) When do you stop telling the story? Right at the beginning. Don't tell a story. Give the players information that allows them to make meaningful decisions."
|Adam says, "(That was to Tyrin.)"
|Tyrin hopes not Jia. .. that would make me feel as though only a few people count.
|Tyrin says, "that makes sense Adam, Thank-you."
|Anorna says, "Thanks Adam! I have to scoot now for shower and bed. :D"
|Adam says, "Jia, we thought about this when we built Firan, and designed into the very theme of the game some meta-game mechanisms to save important characters: the deities, and Fate (personified). These are /characters/ with /agendas/ that will save characters who are /important to them/. If you're not important to a god or to Fate, then you get to die. Being important to me and Steph or Jamie or Lisa /personally/ -- that doesn't count for crap."
|Adam says, "Donos was an important priest of Zin. Zin might have saved him. I don't play Zin, so I don't know.,"
|Jia nods "Makes sense to me."
|Adam says, "Any more comments or questions about fairness?"

Tinyplot Ideas

Adam says, "Okay, we can stop here, or we can make up a sample tinyplot and talk about how to plan and run it."

|Kagi has a simple TP idea that could be used...
|Adam says, "Let's gauge people's appetite for more of this before we go that far."
|Adam says, "Who wants to do it?"
|Galen says, "Can we run through the TP idea? (Even though I might have to idle in the middle of it, for RL?)"
|Asishon says, "Sounds good. I'd definitely like to hear about 'criteria' staff uses for looking at and approving TPs. I've only had like... 3 or 4 rejected. :P All for good reasons though!"
|Talikos wouldn't mind adjourning and picking this up later in the week, since it's getting late for some :)
|Rodiste has been listening for the most part; but I'm down for some more active participation. I've been really holding back on like the "How I did..." comments to just listen to yah, Adam.
|Rodiste says, "But, I'm down for more!"
|Adam has 4 yea and 1 nay. Looks like we go forward. I'm quitting at 11 my time (75 minutes).
|Asishon says, "I've heard that before. :)"
|Zhara says we go on. I like this. Lots. |Adam says, "Okay, so let's do a tinyplot, not a quest, because I think they're harder, yet they offer more to the game (more players can participate)."
|Kagi has one rough blocked out, one that's just a simple one line that is probably better to examine because it can have wide ranging consequences and would be harder to manage.
|Rodiste says, "Smaller TPs are awesome I find because you have more control; but its also less to have to juggle... so you can let the players do their thing and 'nudge' them appropriately if on their own accord, they are missing the clues. Smaller defined in this instance as like, faction sized for a night or two."

Adam says, "Everyone suggest ONE idea for a tinyplot. Give us a single short sentence pitch. Pretend you have 30 seconds in an elevator with Steph at FiranCon to convince her to run your plot. For example: 'A strange Doppleganger race comes into Anarinuell and starts trying to infiltrate the Republic Army!'"

|Adam says, "(I am not saying that we'd ever approve THAT plot, by the way.)"
|Talikos says, "a sinkhole opens up under the OC, exposing forgotten crypts from an ancient firan race."
|Galen says, "A mysterious gap is found in one of the city walls and it needs investigating."
|Kagi says, "Rumor spreads that Khristos and Madix's thefts from the Gold Dragons were far more extensive than described or admitted, and there is now a treasure trove hidden somewhere in the city. Some have found keys that might lead to trunks that contain fortunes, or maybe it was hidden in the walls. Will clans offer finders a percentage of the treasure to uncover it? Will the first assert their authority? And will anyone pay attention before they start bashing down the walls of the city, trying to find any and all places they could have hidden it."
|Galen says, "Psst. Kagi. One sentence. :>"
|Kagi fails. :(

Adam says, "Okay, Galen, but I don't know anything about your plot. That's not a pitch. That's a movie trailer. You don't need to keep secrets from us! We are in on it. Rewrite it as a real pitch: tell me who made the gap in the wall, and why!"

|Tyrin says, "Children and small adults start going missing, and the only trail left are the tracks of animals leading out of town and vanishing in the woods."
|Tyrin says, "err, small animals."
|Adam says, "Tyrin: same problem."
|Tyrin says, "ok :)"
|Jia says, "The bank opens up one morning and someone notices the stenis are missing."
|Kagi tries again: Tax collectors announce that they will be assessing a war tax upon the citizens - inspectors will be fanning out throughout the city to assess ten percent tax on the value of all belongings they're able to find, payable immediately.
|Galen says, "A Shami griffon on a surprise raid misses the Junik mansion and instead crashlands into the city wall- rumor has it that there is great treasure inside, but those that went in first kept it - is it true - is there hidden history - it's up to the players to find out."
|Zhara claps a hand over KAgi's mouth. SHHHHHHHHHH!
|Adam says, "Jia, same problem. It's a /great/ hook, but they're not enough. Who took the stenis and why?"
|Ignatia says, "Oh, that first pitch from Galen... we never got to know the follow-up about the baby on the walls, maybe more could be found... it is a drikkist conspiracy! Though that would touch some other TP..."
|Galen says, "And no one who knows who got in there first- only there was someone there. (OOcly the GM'd know.)"
|Talikos wants to pull a bank heist. Srsly. THE CHARIOT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HERE!
|Adam says, "Galen, excellent plot!"
|Galen hoards that to himself. I'll @request for that later. Bwahah.
|Galen says, "And thank you!"
|Galen now AFKs to RL. I'm logging, Adam.

Adam says, "Are people rethinking and rewriting?"

|Kagi cheers Galen.
|Adam says, "Do you want help?"
|Zhara is thinking.
|Talikos has a boring TP. But I'm a sucker for catacombs. So!
|Zhara says, "Will you all hit me if I do something Nekahtish? I don't wnana be the girl that pined."
|Adam says, "I also note that you seem predisposed to either a) D&D-type adventures in dark places, or b) mysteries."
|Adam says, "You're already the girl that pined. So no loss now! =)"
|Zhara laughs and kisses Adam. Ok! Something different. Uh... hrm.
|Xamori says, "Mysteriously, bars of platinum and bolts of silk cloth get delivered daily to Xamori."
|Talikos mms. Well, it doesn't have to be a mystery! The facts are simple enough. it would be up to players to root around in there.
|Zhara highfives Zamori.
|Jia says, "Ok, a new gemstone is found"
|Talikos says, "Xamori Teranzik-Prada."
|Galen says, "My Emit: Exploring the Old City can't be as dangerous as everyone says it is."
|Galen says, "Gods, I love timing."
|Tyrin says, "Children all over the city begin going missing. Rumor has it that a large traveling carnival near Lurasher is attracting the children, or is it a slaver ring?"
|Adam says, "You don't need to come up with brand new ones. I like the bank and stenis thing. You could have rewritten it: A nest of carnotti has taken up residence under the bank and might eat all the city's money or cause economic depression by withdrawing all their money!"
|Galen says, "Carnotti scaaaaaary."
|Galen shivers.
|Talikos says, "a fire in the bank causes the stenis to melt together. Whose is whose! ;)"
|Asishon says, "Some random creature is digging under the walls and causing the city walls to fall on houses/buildings/preferably not but possibly people. Either that or the walls are ooold and we don't have Vasyklo to fix them. :("
|Adam says, "Jia, what are the consequences of a new gemstone? What do the players get to do?"
|Adam says, "Talikos, that is BRILLIANT. I have to run that now."
|Ignatia says, "That could be interesting, an eating stenis beast! Would they risk their lives for their money? ;)"
|Galen says, "What about tying the gap in the wall with the bank?"
|Xamori says, "Jia says, "Xamori gets a new way to look fabulous.""
|Asishon goes and starts withdrawing his money.
|Ignatia follows Asishon. ;)
|Jia grins "it would cause a fashion stir among the nobles on who gets to wear it

Adam causes rampant economic depression and blames it on Asishon and Ignatia in global emits.

|Ignatia points to Asishon. He made me do it! I swear, I am innocent! ;)
|Asishon says, "Somehow the dove stays afloat. *looks innocent*"
|Tyrin says, "the city is full of conduits where the fountains are fed by the river. Could it be these conduits that erode the soil under the walls and cause sink holes, cave inns, and buildings sinking into the ground?"
|Kagi says, "A delegation has arrived from Garusani and challenge the city's gladiators to bring forward their best fighters to fight a number of bears, taking bets on the winners (or survivors.)"
|Asishon says, "Hey I never said I kept the money. I've ended every single day this week with 0 stenis in my inventory."

Adam says, "Tyrin, love the circus idea. But why not bring the circus to Anarinuell? That sounds like more fun! Then, have children start disappearing. Remove the questions from it. It's a pitch, not a trailer. Rewrite: A circus has come to town, entertaining citizens and -- unbeknownst to everyone -- kidnapping children and selling them to the Shamis."

|Adam says, "Tyrin, cool sink hole idea, but I'm not sure how playable it is. You have to make sure there will be something for players to DO."
|Adam says, "Kagi, re: bear fighting... what's in it for the Firans?"
|Tyrin says, "true... .. but then would that plot only gain the interest of the guards ... as all info would be isolated to them? ... True, the sink holes I left the players out. Giant Fire Breathing Ants."
|Asishon says, "Let them have a real/fake letter from Elianos. :)"
|Adam says, "You think if children start disappearing, only the guards will care?"
|Ignatia says, "No, but it might be contained that way."
|Adam says, "The information would be public: Children are disappearing! You make it very public."
|Tyrin says, "no, the parents will too ... though they'll be ordered to remain out of the investigation .... not to interfere. .. like when Ania and Lucretia went missing."

Adam says, "You make it personal. You pick random child objects and they get KIDNAPPED."

|Asishon says, "And watch as no one in their family notices for a month. :P"
|Xamori says, "Nannies all over the city are executed."

Adam says, "Orders were meant to be disobeyed. And that's a great choice for a player: Obey my clan leader or hunt for my missing child anyway?"

|Zhara says, "A new food is created, like the recent strawberry tarts and cheesecake- When eaten, however, the food has mysterious side effects- You see things that will happen in the future, or already happened in the past and no one knows if it's true or will be true."
|Kagi says, "Easier to ask forgiveness than permission."
|Tyrin says, "True. Yeah, nannies will run for their lives, and /hunt/ the missing children knowing the only option is death."
|Adam says, "Zhara, how do you actually code that? =)"
|Zhara says, "Remember DWD?"
|Zhara says, "er, Dream World day."
|Adam says, "I suppose you can tell people who eat it to just make crap up. But then everyone knows OOC that it's BS."
|Zhara says, "No, you could base it off rumors."
|Talikos says, "give a few of them pemitted visions, and make a few of them come true ;)"
|Asishon says, "don't we already have a 'seer' tag maybe you could temporarily get that tag set?"
|Adam says, "It's feasible, but it's a ton of work for someone. I'd probably reject it for that reason."
|Zhara says, "And history. New files. Like am emit system, randonly picking fact or fiction from a bank."
|Tyrin loved when I ate stuff and had pink polka dot hair.

Adam says, "Like, plots like Talikos' 'forgotten crypts from an ancient Firan race' tend to get rejected because it requires staff to Make Stuff Up for you."

|Ignatia says, "I like the circus idea without the shamis part, but then again, I already have a taken kid-alt made slave, don't really want the deja vu. But if it is public it could work, like when that time kids disappeared and they were found by Sabinar at Sarkaran, it ended up involving a lot of people."
|Zhara says, "But there's staff who would looooove to do that:>"
|Tyrin says, "what about the Eagle Ruins. It is there, mostly forgotten, and full of secrets. Well explored by children :P"
|Talikos hoards his CPs. And I will specifically request a giant rolling boulder in there somewhere.
|Kagi says, "Sweet Potato Pie causes physical changes in appearance on what at first appears to be a temporary basis - will things stay that way, or will it be the new fashion for parties?"

Circus Kidnapper TP Example

|Adam says, "So let's do the circus one as a group, okay?"
|Kagi says, "A child emit: You want to run away and join the circus."
|Tyrin says, "ok. Randomly chose NPC's and @mail those who would receive the /neglect/ notices for that child. ... so players are alerted right away."

Adam says, "So, what are the 'components' we need to assemble for this plot. Lemme remind you what it was: A circus has come to town, entertaining citizens and -- unbeknownst to everyone -- kidnapping children and selling them to the Shamis. (It has to be to the Shamis. Firans aren't slavers themselves and we don't need another horrible bad guy. We have a great one already.)"

|Talikos thinks my chief concern with that one, would be how quickly it would spiral to a CL who sends in the troops.
|Tyrin nods in agreement with Kagi. Have rumors going around with children about all the fun ... some go to see it themselves.
|Asishon says, "Sell them to the Nekaht!"
|Adam says, "The Nekaht are currently unreachable."
|Zhara says, "We need some imaginative and overly passionate player helpers (ahem) to play the circus freaks!"
|Tyrin says, "how about the Nekhet? ... or is there a treaty where they won't enslave us ... even if other Firans sell us?"
|Tyrin says, "ah.."
|Zhara sticks her tongue out at Adam. Killjoy!
|Adam says, "Pine pine pine."
|Zhara grins.
|Talikos says, "nekhat stole my bike."
|Adam says, "Nekaht ate my baby."
|Zhara is that a Nekaht in your pocket or.. nevermind.
|Tyrin thinks there needs to be a notion of a holding area .. staging area .. . or Rumor has it that the ships will be picking the children up at some unknown destination in three weeks..

Adam says, "Is there any way to avoid the problem Talikos points out? That the Clan Council will just send in an army and beat up all the clowns and monkeys?"

|Tyrin says, "this way players have a chance to save the children ... they aren't already lost."
|Talikos says, "how do you avoid keeping the kids in cells for 1-2 weeks, unable to affect hte situation?"
|Kagi says, "So needed things would be a circus area that could be explored by PCs - could be set up at the festival, during the festival peace, which would prevent the army being moved in."
|Adam says, "The kids who get kidnapped won't be players."
|Talikos says, "that makes it a bit less complex!"
|Talikos says, "a circus barge tht sailed upriver."
|Zhara says, "Oh! HAve one of the kids taken be an heir to the CL medallion. If eveyrone gets ded, then the kids can't come back, and they need the clowns alive!"
|Talikos says, "or downriver. whatever."
|Tyrin says, "PC children will be grounded to their homes while this is going on ... any way to stop that?"
|Adam says, "Clever, Kagi. I was also gonna suggest that a handful of concerned parents are the only ones who know. They find out and realize that if an army tries to move in, their kids will get killed and dumped into the canals before the army can save them."
|Asishon says, "Have it happen during the Festivals so no uber violence?"
|Adam says, "I dunno, Tyrin. What do you suggest?"
|Adam nods to Asishon. Kagi said that.
|Kagi says, "Small visible clues could be say a bit of swaddling cloth in a cage that a panther is in."
|Asishon failboat.
|Talikos wonders how you guarantee a parent doesn't squeal. the whole 'players don't always take smart advice' thing :)
|Tyrin says, "have the children mysteriously vanish from their beds while they sleep. Their parents swear they heard nothing. This might give reason to keep the children in public areas for their own safety, or huddled in large public groups at night."
|Adam says, "When the first parent squeals, you pre-empt it by killing their kid and the messenger to the CC. ;)"
|Talikos says, "sweeet."
|Adam says, "But that's way heavy-handed."
|Talikos says, "oh right. heavy handed."
|Ignatia blinks. A bit...

Adam says, "There's something else you can do, if the players are cool with it. They have to be 'in on it.'" Adam says, "You tell them, up front, that you want to do a plot with them, concerning their child objects. Then tell them, if they agree, they will have their children kidnapped and then they will /get caught/ trying to free them. You start the story there. A bunch of concerned parents trying to free their kids get caught by the slavers. It becomes an escape and free-the-kids mission."

|Adam says, "But it just turned into more of a quest than a tinyplot."
|Kagi says, "And if it's during the festival peace - the kidnappers don't care about breaking it, but do the players care?"
|Adam nods to Kagi. "Probably not with their child objects at risk, if I know players."
|Tyrin would be tempted to have NPC mobs moving around, causing scenes, and heading to the circus to confront them. Parents could join these mobs, and the military could be advised to play peace keepers. ... tell them to be Canadians.
|Talikos thinks it being a TP makes it more difficult to help hint the Powers that Be don't just squash it. Festival peace is a great way to stifle it.
|Adam says, "Sometimes you can just tell the Clan Council that things will get resolved if they don't intervene and they can safely stay out of it without fear of a riot. ;)"
|Tyrin says, "yes, the CC likes to control every aspect of the game, and then make it secretive."
|Adam says, "Really, it's often the most simple solution. Ask them not to."
|Talikos says, "if they know 'it'll take care of itself' that's a great relief :)"
|Kagi says, "and hard choices could be offered - parents secretly told that they could pay a random for their child, but if they tell others what they were charged, the deal's off, and they'll kidnap someone else in their family."
|Talikos says, "I think kids being captured and a parental vigilante mission to break them out of hte circus after dark would be neat."
|Adam says, "Tyrin, you have a very adversarial opinion of these players. You're very wrong about them. The CC hates to control every aspect of the game, but they feel that if they let things go, riots will ruin their clan and players will hate them for letting it happen."
|Tyrin ungs. That explains much ... damned if you do .. damned if you don't ... and all responsibility lays on their shoulders.
|Adam says, "Now you're understanding."
|Kagi says, "But to pay these huge ransoms, they'll almost be required to hit up their sponsors, will the sponsors let go the money on an act of faith? And will productive sponsorees seek other sponsors who'll help out instead of giving the cold shoulder?"
|Tyrin thinks the RC needs to have much more control over religion matters.
|Ignatia says, "All this made me remember the The Pied Piper of Hamelin story ;)"

Adam says, "Kagi is doing a great job of coming up with lists of questions -- essentially, player decisions that matter -- to ask players during the tinyplot. This is how you plan a TP."

Adam says, "You cannot stop your planning with 'bad things happen, then players go on a mission!' That's not a plan that will protagonize characters."

|Kagi says, "Circus people could pay off PC guards, or even just create the appearance that they're paid off - will parents risk their children to expose the corruption? Or try to rebuy the guards to their cause?"
|Tyrin says, "what about offering the parents a trade. Your daughter is small, if you provide us with another child we'll return her. Some parents might do that."

Adam says, "You MUST ask yourself -- and answer -- what hard and meaningful choices will these characters (and their players) face along the way? What are some possible answers? How do I present the options to the players in the best way?"

|Kagi nods to Tyrin. "Will you betray a friend to save your own child?"
|Tyrin says, "will Genaros sacrifice a waller child to rescue Sariben?"

Adam says, "And if you can do these things for a generic tinyplot where you don't know exactly who will be participating, you can more easily handle a smaller set of known characters for a limited quest-like engagement."

|Kagi says, "The kidnap victims could be servants in powerful families - is that noble baby worth more than your family? How loyal are you."

Adam says, "And, then, there IS a bit of storytelling, but it's more like role-play. You want your players to interact with your setup. On the military missions, there were no NPCs to role-play with most of the time. They were interacting with the environment (scouts explored an unknown terrain and avoided enemy, the Fifth interacted with the fortress gate and the enemy archers, and so on). It was important that I give them information, then let them make decisions, then apply the consequences of those decisions, then go back and give them more information. It's a cycle."

Adam says, "You might start with a crucial bit of information. Perhaps you create a plot level-IV NPC and send a message to twenty different parent PCs: 'I have your child. If you want to see them in one piece, deliver 100,000 stenis to the docks /personally/ on (OOC: March 20, 8 PM).'"

|Tyrin says, "Another idea ... if a mysterious illness fell over children who were at the carnival * many npcs* .. and made them unconscious. The only ones who know the secrets aren't willing to tell them, ... unless games are played and the ingredients are awarded as prizes. Silly games .. with extremely hard chances of winning. Each player gets one shot at the game ... one might get lucky and win the ingredient."
|Adam says, "That's a little surreal for my taste, Tyrin. Sounds like a Twilight Zone episode!"
|Tyrin grins.. true ..
|Talikos says, "The Jokus."
|Adam says, "Also, seems like there are few real choices for players to make there."
|Talikos will be Batmanus!

Adam says, "So, what about fairness? How do you fairly kidnap twenty child objects?"

|Tyrin says, "random, like griffons falling on a home. Each online PC has a percentage chance.." |Tyrin says, "for a child of their family ... not just their own."
|Talikos says, "if they all get away clean that won't seem fair. it'll seem like magic." |Xamori says, "Don't some of the playerbase resent these level IV Plot characters...because there's no real danger of losing them if their caught, as it's not a main alt, but the danger is real for the other characters or in this case their child objects?"
|Xamori says, "They're caught."
|Tyrin says, "the bath house is fairly busy, what if children started vanishing from there?"
|Tyrin nods to Xamori. I have often heard that. |Adam says, "I don't get that, because they're no different than NPCs that you can't interact with at all, save via a GM."
|Talikos thinks the perception is 'a iv has nothing to lose' and so has the advantage.
|Adam says, "Advantage? They're NPCs. The player should not have a vested interest in them as they do their main alts."
|Adam says, "We take them away after the plot ends."
|Tyrin's alts are both IV's. Not all IVs are meant for death plots.
|Xamori says, "Obviously, but I believe the complaining happens from those the plot affects."
|Jia says, "agreed... I like my IVs... don't want them to die"
|Adam says, "Including ones you made up specifically for a given plot?"
|Talikos says, "what I mean is player A with their 5 years invested in their level 2, vs player B playing a temp alt. Player A would perhaps feel they're risking a lot more in a fight."
|Kagi says, "Fairness would be only choosing those houses that don't have NPC guards and other strong barriers to the kidnapping. If there's fifty guards around someone's house, the kidnappers are going to pick easier targets - means the most well off families will be the safest, but that's a situation of the environment."
|Adam says, "There's a sort of cardinal rule of GMing which is that you don't get to be a player while you're GMing. That means the plot-IV you made just for this plot is not your character. You don't get attached. You don't keep playing them after. There's no advantage to be had."
|Xamori says, "I think that's my point."
|Talikos isn't saying the iv-driver will have an actual advantage.
|Tyrin says, "the difference is that many players don't trust other players or even helpers to act fairly, and justly. Oftentimes hardships are questioned ... was I picked for OOC reasons ... were they quick to make negative judgments against me because they hate my character. When a wizards nPC runs things, these questions don't come into play .."
|Adam says, "If it's a wizard running a character we just made up for this plot, is that different than a player-GM making a IV for a plot?"
|Talikos says, "but player driving a level 2 might think 'hey if this other guy was also a known playe ron grid with a level 2, maybe we wouldn't be in this winner take all knife fight.. because we'd both have something to lose and I could bargain'."
|Talikos isn't saying it's the right attitude to have, just throwing it out there as one possible reason for the resentment that was mentioned.
|Petula says, "Many thanks for this, Adam. :) I will beg a log later!"
|Cortik says, "I think fairness can be translated through transparency and the perception of control. It worked wonders for War. Let people make rolls to be used against a kidnapper's rolls. So they don't feel they were taken advantage of when logged off, or something."
|Tyrin nods in agreement Talikos. I believe you hit Xam's point on the head.
|Adam says, "If a player-GM creates a plot-IV and uses it to further /his or her agenda as a player/, not as a GM doing something for the game, then they're cheating and we'd stop it."
|Talikos thought one of the assumptions here was this TP would have looked for volunteers to participate (at least in the opening stages), too.
|Xamori says, "The GM and the NPCs are done, whistling away at a job well done, while there could be dire consequences for the characters involved. This might be a bad example, but take Pangaros and that whole thing. It was real characters doing it, therefore once they were caught there was a real sense of justice. They lost their characters. Not everything has that justice. Now throw a plot made level IV into Pangaros place...it's loses something."
|Kagi says, "I think what they're saying the issue is: there's no responsible party - everyone vanishes at the end, there's no one to punish but some level IV that means nothing to anyone anyway."
|Adam nods to Xamori. "That was all player-driven. That was not a TP in any sense of the word. We're not talking about player-driven stuff here."
|Xamori says, "Fair enough. :)"
|Talikos nods to Xam. its not that the IV is cheating, Adam, it's that the 2 is thinking 'hey its not fair ,this 4 is risking nothing while I'm risking everything'
|Adam says, "If Pangaros' player makes a plot-IV and does the same stuff he'd do with Pangaros? Cheating. Stop it. If, say, Xamori's player did it, so what? She has no investment in the OC that way."
|Adam says, "Talikos, what did I risk when I GMed the war?"
|Adam says, "I used /thousands/ of NPC objects over the course of three weeks."
|Kagi says, "A hell of a lot of lost sleep, Adam. :)"
|Asishon says, "Sanity, and your stomach?"
|Zhara says, "Time with your wife."
|Asishon says, "Steph killing you in your sleep for killing her characters?"
|Zhara says, "Your hair?"
|Adam says, "Gone already."
|Tyrin says, "a good example is the Hydran killers who ran amok killing and kidnapping players. Sterlin was killed then, as were other PCs who didn't want to be killed. Player or character. These level IV's created a good RP plot, but in the end it was just pain that was left. The hardest part of losing a character is losing the RP you had with that alt ... the other characters you RP'd with. This was lost to those players, and it is very hard to gain back. There was nothing they could do to prevent the deaths ... it was decided for them."
|Zhara grins.
|Talikos thinks we're looking at this thing from different ends of the stick ;)
|Adam says, "So, essentially, I risked nothing game-related -- not as a player. Nothing as a player."
|Adam says, "When you are GMing, you are a GM, not a player. You have nothing to lose as a player."
|Adam says, "If you do, then you are cheating."
|Tyrin says, "and when they were caught, they chose quick deaths as they had no vested interest in the character."
|Adam says, "Tyrin, is there anything different about that than the people who died at war? I had no vested interest in my shami puppets."
|Tyrin says, "no, but those who were at war placed themselves in that position. The PCs who were kidnapped and killed didn't."
|Adam assumes this 'Hydran killers' thing of which you speak was some player-run or PHer-run or wizard-run TP?
|Asishon says, "I think you get Tyrin's point though Adam. Deaths as part of war were part of a RL Decade long plot. A number of the characters like the Sennets were formed with a good amount of hate and willingness to do anything to take Ellish. Where as the Hydran killers were victims of wrong place for the wrong time for basically a random one week plot."
|Adam says, "So were the victims of Red Bloom, though."
|Talikos uses a different example. Say you had a level 3 alt, adam, that you'd played for 3 years. I make a level IV to run a tp of a OC killah who's going to mug people and die messily. Your guy is my first victim. So, you lose 3 years of RL work and XP, and my IV goes down in a hail of bullets. I dust off my hands and go 'woo great tp!' Even though everything was fair and by the book.. do you see where the victim might be thinking 'jee, if that guy was a regular OC player with 2000 xp in his char, he'd NEVER have done that and just died.
|Adam says, "If you're arguing that they weren't given a chance to make decisions that matter, I'll nod in agreement. If you're saying that it's broken because the GMs don't care about their plot-IV's, I'll continue to look at you with puzzlement."
|Asishon says, "Yep, but it's going back a bit to your question of fairness. something that randomly strikes people and reduces RP with no /choice/ is not as good a plot as something that causes more of it."
|Niobe says, "Scroll case. Death happens even not during TPs. ;)"
|Talikos says, "man, scroll case. I STILL can't believe that."
|Kagi says, "But there was a choice made to be involved in the plot, I think, is what Tyrin's saying, whereas randomly killing people for a mass murderer plot it's like, hey, my character's dead and I got nothing out of it. Which goes back to fairness - there is risk in the game, a griffon could follow Jamie down when she lands here, and crush us all, but there should be player driven options - such as hiding under Zhara so that I don't die, hopefully."
|Xamori whines, "Do we have to talk about death?"
|Adam says, "Sure, Asishon. But that has NOTHING to do with the value of a plot-IV vs. the value of the level II you've been playing for five years."
|Talikos gives Xamori a cupcake.
|Adam says, "See my point? Has nothing to do with IV's. Has everything to do with choice."
|Tyrin says, "yes.. I see that now."
|Adam says, "A plot-IV is a game device that actually makes things /fairer/. You might beat the damned level-IV swordsman in combat, but if they just force a single @check or handwave that you get knocked out for sake of the plot? Suckitude."
|Asishon says, "Yep yep I do. But I think some of the frustration comes because sometimes Level IV plots are seen as PK'ing even if it has nothing to do with the players character, and not seen as NPC's which is how they're intended. Perception of fairness rah."
|Tyrin says, "I would personally like to see a plot in the crumbling palace ... maybe a kidnap plot but have the rooms trapped and real danger to those seeking them."
|Asishon says, "It's hard for me as Joe player to distinguish someone's Level IV alt from their TP Leve IV unless they tell me."
|Talikos noddles. Perception is what I'm driving at. Along with making Adam's remaining hair go grey.
|Adam nods. "Fair enough. I'll consider making it a RULE that plot-IV's identify themselves as such, so that everyone can hold them up to a GMing standard, not just 'another player' standard.
|Kagi would rather see it done for treasure than a kidnap plot - Again, player choice - do you /want/ to risk the dangers for whatever might be at the end?
|Niobe says, "Sometimes people do volunteer for kidnapping. Even if they know the risk on the OOC level."
|Adam says, "Remember, both ladies involved in the war kidnap plot volunteered. =)"
|Talikos doesn't think they need to ID themselves, to be honest. I don't think a plot-IV is inherently wrong by Pkilling. I do think Niobe has a valid point. People should be givein the choice to start a process that is Risky.
|Tyrin thinks perception of level IVs have improved greatly. When Tyrin first came out as a level IV, people were leery of getting to know him .. .many refused to put him on their @family. Now Stavros has no trouble with that. I think the same can be said of level IV plot characters and NPCs, if the plots are seen as fair and give players choices. The first few didn't, and many distrusted them after that. Another example is the flood. PCs were told they couldn't get out, water was high .. need a canoe or some sort. Thieves ran amok stealing everything and didn't have any movement hindrances.
|Asishon says, "Well who wouldn't volunteer to get away from Nydiam."
|Kagi is more saying that kidnapping might be an overused plot device, not that it's not a valid plot device.
|Talikos says, "my IV has been getting on ok :)"
|Ignatia says, "I would like to see someone fish/net-catch a mermaid. I didn't even know that mermaids were thematic until recently, then why is Zin known for liking to... ahm, take 'ground' women? ;)"
|Zhara says, "It seems to me, too, that there's a bunch of people looking for ways to wrap up their character's stories. Characters they can't stand to roster, that they can't stand to play anymore either."
|Tyrin says, "he's a thigh man Ignatia.."
|Niobe nods at Adam. Also. Sometimes people with plot level IVs like to get out there and rp while driving rp without being totally invasive with it. If they announce themselves then people are all... oooh there should be fire works all the time.
|Tyrin says, "or people will go out of their way to RP with them and get in on the plot."
|Kagi grins. "They should wear a TinyPlot medallion."
|Talikos owie.
|Tyrin nods to Kagi. Global emits draw people in to RP. Level IV plot misters may find something to be advantageous.
|Asishon says, "So Adam I know we're running low on time, but could you maybe spend a little bit talking to us about TP approvals. Is it objective or subjective, what's the level of input/effort is reasonable to ask from staff? You talked a little about what kind of good information there is for us to pitch, but I'd like to hear what ideas for plots and quests are reasonable and what aren't, and what are there like certain solid criteria to meet or is it just if we can tickle the fancy of any of the tp wizards?"
|Adam says, "I do disagree that people always get a choice about entering risky territory, because we warned people when they signed up for Firan that bad things happen to good people. It's a non-consent game. Now, a good GM will not make the terrible consequence a foregone conclusion (e.g., 'Your baby is dead! Role-play it out!') but rather throw tough choices in the player's face (e.g., 'Your baby is kidnapped! You can risk your life to rescue them or pay through the nose to get them back or get creative on your own! Go!')."

How to Get Your TP Approved

Adam says, "Okay, TP approvals."

Adam says, "First, check out http://firan.legendary.org/index.php/Guest_GM if you have not already. It's the way I want you to submit pitches for TPs that you want to GM for us."

Adam says, "You've now been trained on a pitch. Give me a pitch! Don't give me a back-cover pull-quote. I don't care about your mystery. I care what is actually happening. I know that you can make it all mysterious sounding when you develop it."

|Tyrin says, "their player helper set title could be Guest GM, rather than Mer? Thanks for the meeting Adam, but it is now past bedtime for me. Night all."

Adam says, "Also, if your pitch sounds mysterious, then it's probably an investigation plot, and those tend to suck."

Adam says, "Once we get your pitch and all the other answers to those questions on that wiki page, we'll take some time to review the idea. If it won't work, we'll deny it and tell you why. There's no shame in fixing it and trying again."

|Talikos says, "adam is totally dissing 20 years of scooby doo."
|Adam says, "Scooby Doo makes excellent tv and terrible gaming."
|Adam says, "@check perception at 8 to see if you discover anything. [Talikos gets 0 successes.] Aww, sorry. Dead end. Now what?"
|Talikos says, "now I have sex with daphne."
|Adam says, "Okay, roll to hit."
|Kagi says, "Eesha gives you boils."
|Niobe says, "Covered wagon and chillin in the back? ;)"
|Talikos gets velma. DAMMIT

Adam says, "So, if it works, we'll green light you -- once it's a good time to run it. It could be the most awesome plot in the world, and still the wrong time to run it. So don't despair if we sit on it for a while. Once we do greenlight you, we'll want you to show us a more detailed plan and stuff."

Adam says, "We /will/ help you with stuff. We /will/ handle things like minor building (though look at how much I did with only a few rooms -- 7? -- during war season). We might even do some minor coding if your idea is REALLY cool. But really, we want you to help take burden off us, so that means we love ideas that require very little coding and staff work."

|Adam says, "Questions?"
|Yolette says, "is there a way to help with coding?"
|Kagi says, "Can a device be made to aid guest GM's? A modified say command, a way to force checks, or handle quiet checks (say @checkall and @checkall/quiet), maybe even do GuestGM emits to a partition? A simplistic tool to aid guest gms?"
|Adam says, "Yolette, not really. I am pretty sure that, until you have coded within the Firan environment for about a month, you'd have no clue how to integrate with anything."
|Asishon says, "heeeh builder in a box."
|Adam says, "You can help with /building/ in some cases. Just write the desc segments and have a PHer install them for you. Wizzes have to dig the new rooms though."
|Yolette noddle
|Adam says, "Kagi, most of those things aren't necessary. Some emits can be handled by PHers. Secret @checks probably ought to be avoided. For the rest, all you have to do is ask a wizard and we'll do it on the spot. Need a teleport or pile of spears? A wizard can do."
|Adam says, "And we'll probably let you create plot-IVs and stuff. \\-emit the rest?"
|Adam says, "I ran the scouting missions with nothing more than a single room, anonymous emits, and asking players to @check. I did one secret @check at the end for the cartography rolls. Okay, well, there were a few shamis, too. But staff will work with you on that stuff."
|Asishon says, "And trees... lots of trees"
|Niobe kisses her cart dice. Heeehe.
|Adam says, "Okay, time's up. I'll be around for a bit (on Public). Gonna get a snack and do some work-work before bed."
|Kagi nods. "Thanks Adam!"
|Adam says, "You guys have been great! Thanks!"
|Niobe says, "That Bonduin boy needed slapped."
Xamori says, "Thank you."
|Rodiste says, "Thank you!"
|Niobe says, "Thanks!"
|Adam says, "Someone get a PHer to post a /cleaned up/ log to the wiki."
|Kagi does it if no one else wants to.
|Talikos says, "thanks, this was interestin!"
|Adam zamfs.