Theme Hour on the Griffon Clan

From FiranMUX

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Hello, people!"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "My name is Amber, and I will be your waitress tonight."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Er. Wizard. Wizard. They both start with w."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Anyway. Tonight we are discussing the Griffon clan. Largely because your resident theme wiz has a degree in English but cannot remember the alphabet."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Anyway. All joking aside, we will start with the Griffon clan. If you get out your maps, class, (http://firan.legendary.org/index.php/Image:Newmap.jpg) you will see the Griffons have two big problems. One, they're right beside the Shamibelians. Two, the side that isn't next to the Shamis happens to be the Gold Dragons."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "(I was right on everything except the r! That's it! I'm renaming the clan! They are now the Giffons!)"

[Public] Malatan says, "Oh, good grief."

[Public] Carana says, "We're caught between a rock and a hard place..."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "The Giffons are today one of the smallest clans. They haven't always been that way. It just so happens that they have been chewed up and spit out multiple times over the past few decades."

[Public] Ruanos says, "Jalil is our main problem."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "The Giffons' origins, way back centuries ago, were actually in the Gold Dragon clan. However, for a long, long time, the Gold Dragons have been their bitter rivals. Once Anarinuell was a Giffon city. Pre-Great War, the Gold Dragons took it from them, and also Scirlut, where atrocities were alleged to have been committed, earning Firgalas the title 'the Butcher of Scirlut' and Elianos the title 'Son of the Butcher.'"

[Public] Carana settles down in Jalil's lap, "But he gave us a pretty city, even if it did make us loose a huge chunk of army =)

[Public] Jalil says, "Carana, stop revealing the brilliance of my plan."

[Public] Orfi slides the R into the Grold Dragons.

[Public] Professor Amber says, "When the Shamibelians came a-calling, (brilliant work with that r, Orfi!), the Griffons were further decimated as the Shamis took cities, took slaves, and killed people as they are wont to do. Furthermore, Griffon cities were burnt as part of Bannos' 'ring of fire' to hold off the Shamis. For a very large time in in-game history, the Giffons had no cities at all."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Now they have part of Scirlut and have attempted to rebuild Firalut, which is still mostly in ruins. Ellish, the only Firan city the Shamis still hold, was a Griffon city."

[Public] Ruanos says, "IS a Griffon city, dangit."

[Public] Joey says, "Tell that to Fudathim!"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "The Griffons have also just recently settled back into stability with a new clan leader, after a period of regents and regime changes, due to Judanarius being up and down more often than a Dove on payday. (Wait. Can I say that on the Public channel?)"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Culturally, the Griffons, like their arch-rivals, are a very militaristic clan, requiring military service for almost everyone. They are a very gender-egalitarian clan, not distinguishing in the duties that each gender should perform. They also tend to be overwhelmingly Uffian."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "And I am going to open this up to questions now, but first I'm going to display my Old Fogey badge, and say when I started playing Firan, Jalil was Lord Jalil of the Griffon clan!"

[Public] Adan says, "Perhaps this isn't a question for 'theme hour' but do you see the PC Griffon militia participation as reflecting the Clan as a whole?"

[Public] Carana says, "He was much more agreeable as a Griffon...but then again, I started out as a Dringle =)"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "In general, the clan as a whole loves military service, pushes people into, and looks down on those who don't serve. That said, if everyone's in the army, there's no one to make the food, so NPC-wise, there's a balance. ;)"

[Public] Carana says, "And no, there is very little of the military stuff seen currently in the clan, something that really needs to be worked out."

[Public] Professor Amber nods to Carana. I wasn't aware off hand how much it was being pushed at present.

[Public] Adan says, "More generally, is Griffon universal military service a 'day job' or the 'weekend warrior' type?"

[Public] Malatan says, "Didn't Luna like, require military service from the whole Griffon clan sometime before she rostered?"

[Public] Orfi notes her Gruffle made food and medicines to donate to the clan while serving full time in the Republic and clan military as a medic.

[Public] Carana says, "Exactly. Currently we are only setting those up who are really military sorts in the clan mil, though technically everyone is a part of it. What Luna and I wanted to do was insist that all members of the clan have some sort of combat skill since well."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "I know Luna passed some judgments on mandatory military services, yes. I don't have them at my fingertips. In general, I think some of them is weekend stuff, because you can't run a clan on an army alone."

[Public] Carana says, "But folks didn't really like being told how to use their exp so my thought was more that every child had to demonstrate a skill with weapons before their CoS can take place...that way, perhaps folks can put in child notes or what not what their child has been trained in."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "For instance, in an era without slaves or advanced technology, agriculture is going to be very time and labour intensive. The code may let PCs farm /and/ serve fulltime in the military, but it's not realistically feasible, and we have to keep that in the back of our minds."

[Public] Mahir says, "Not to mention the clan would go bankrupt paying everyone, because there wouldn't be enough tax income."

[Public] Alexa says, "Hence, why large families are also desirable and IC. Cheap labor."

[Public] Vasyklo says, "So what's with the Uf love?"

[Public] Professor Amber nods to Mahir. The army thing is something we may be clarifying thematically in general, since keeping /standing/ armies the size that Firan clans have...well, it's expensive! Both stenis-wise, supplies-wise, and loss-of-labour-wise.

[Public] Orfi says, "because Uf is Uf! :)"

[Public] Orfi says, "and Latta I think"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "She's their patron goddess. It's a traditional thing. Velani, the Griffon seer who was their representative among the Heroes (and Taria's mother) is/was Uffian, for instance."

[Public] Giana says, "There were a latta Uffians before Latta. hee!"

[Public] Carana says, "Think of the Griffon as a militia. They live their own lives and don't really get paid or such except for the weapons and armor that are supplied...but they are called up and trained but not kept as a standing army"

[Public] Professor Amber also belatedly nods to Alexa. Large families = good in Firan mindset because they're cheap labour, there will be someone to look after the parents when they get old, and the larger your family is the more of a security net you have if you're out of work for some reason. But that's another theme hour. :)

[Public] Brandon says, "Amber, can you explain how the Griffon, Cockatrice, and Eagle clans all became entwined? :)"

[Public] Orfi knows that one. :)

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Do you mean specifically their current royal families, Brandon?"

[Public] Brandon nods, "I spent alot of time figuring out how everyone was related when I was a newer player. It can be confusing."

[Public] Orfi says, "Eve was a Cockatrice, who hid among the eagles and was the only heir... married Zarid, had Zeynasi and Nydiam, fell in love with Judanarius and had Luna before she was murdered."

[Public] Orfi says, "so Luna is aunt to both Ania and Diamia"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Eve, whose original name was Nori, was the only Cockatrice royal to escape her brother, Clan Leader Kenrikas' slaughter of royal Cockatrices to secure his throne."

[Public] Alexa says, "Question. There are more gods than clans, and two of the clans only believe in one of them anyway. Were the clans followers of certain gods first, or did the gods favor certain ones after they became established?"

[Public] Alexa says, "More for this theme hour... I never realized Uf was a patron of the Griffons. When did that happen? Is how it happened known history?"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier raises hand for Amber as he has two very specific question. "After Alexa of course." :)

[Public] Professor Amber says, "She was of royal Eagle blood as well -- her mother was sister to Clan Leader Darimon of the Eagles. When Darimon died without issue, Eve was acclaimed Clan Leader of the Eagles. Thus her children -- Zeysani and Nydiam -- were seen by some as heirs to Eagles and the Cockatrices both. Later, after Zarid's death and after she gave up the Eagle medallion, she married Judanarius and had Luna and Juneva."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "So Luna is Ania's aunt, and Ania is Diamia's cousin."

[Public] Once was lost, now was Kerasha has a question too, after Javier's.

[Public] Professor Amber says, "As for the god thing, there really isn't any specific history or documentation as to /why/ certain clans favour certain gods. It's generally presented just as a cultural thing. If there's anything more to it, only Steph knows. I know the Uf thing for the Griffons goes back to at least the Heroes' time and likely existed before."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "My turn Amber? :P"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Yes."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "And, as Jalil reminds me, the Griffon royals are traditionally Uffian. :)"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Can you explain the situation in Scirlut/Skirlut? Specifically how the clans interact and espically what side of the wall the Temple in that city is."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Honestly? Other than the fact the city -is- split, I can't tell you much more about Scirlut. We haven't gone into any trouble making up the details since we GMed it, and if we do, it'd be likely because we want to whip trouble up. :)"

[Public] Jalil says, "How long had the Griffon royal family held the staff of the high priest before Firgalas took it?"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "I'm afraid I don't know, Jalil. Steph probably would."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Alas, I am fallible! *cries quietly in the corner*"

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Where that temple was is something I've asked about before as unless that puppy is split right down the middle or in a DMZ I would expect riots. =/ Can we assume everything is happy-ish down there at least? :P"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "If you're not hearing about it, you can assume it's happy-ish. If you really want to know for your character's sake, you can @request about it, although if you ask for extensive background, we may charge CPs."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "I am dreading the 'Why didn't Jalil/Javier save our temple/build us a new one emit.' is all. :P"

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Was Mount Doom really a temple to Uf before the Great War? Outside Firalut? I had heard that was common knowledge."

[Public] Professor Amber grins at Alexa. There are areas of theme that a) we haven't made up yet because it hasn't come into play, or b) only Steph knows, and she isn't telling.

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "As long as this isn't pinned on us, I'm happy! =)"

[Public] Alexa grins at Amber. Quite all right. We tend to worry about the things that may be lurking that all the NPCs know about but we were clueless and have to deal with their riotous rumps.

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Or c) only Steph knows because no one's asked her yet. :)"

[Public] Professor Amber did not run the Mount Doom campaign, but that is the first I have ever heard that, Vasyklo. Mount Doom was a cavernous fortress. The True Temple in Scirlut was an Uffian temple before the Grold Dragons took it, though, which is why it's such a firepoint.

[Public] Vasyklo says, "I had it researched, and the librarian acted like it was common knowledge that chickens were kept in Mount Doom to please Uf, before the war. I figured that meant temple. It was the first I'd heard of it, too. I figured Vaskylo might know, since he fought around there during that time."

[Public] Once was lost, now was Kerasha says, "Hey Amber? What kind of relations do the Griffons have in relation to the Ticanee?"

[Public] Ruanos says, "There is that whole Taria/Jalil drama thing."

[Public] Jalil says, "What Taria/Jalil drama thing?"

[Public] Carana says, "Well Judanus is Taria's son"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "The Ticanee Clan Leader is one-quarter Griffon. Her first husband was a Griffon (at the time). The current Griffon Clan Leader is married to the Ticanee Clan Leader's son."

[Public] Orfi blinks "Only a quarter? Velani was what and Griffon? cause I am fairly certain her father was full Ticanee

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Sorry, half. My math is as bad as my alphabet. I was thinking of her kids for some reason. :)"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Also, Vasyklo? I don't know about that research question off the top of my head -- and the research @requests are a pain to dig through. However, keep in mind that research is an IC method for an IC answer. The answer you get cannot be always taken as thematic gospel OOCly. I can find books RL that tell us we're ruled by reptilian aliens, after all. :)"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Anyway. The Giffon Clan..."

[Public] Vasyklo says, "And what about Firanos's sacred shrine in Griffon territory? It says it is far to the east. That didn't get taken over by Shamis, did it?"

[Public] Akiva says, "It's near Firalut. So yeah, kinda."

[Public] Akiva says, "I think."

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria says, "How widely known is Marano's story, the Golden Feather and other interesting sort of legends like those? Are those just old tales known by the elders, those that relate to them and random researchers?"

[Public] Akiva says, "A lot of the land the Griffons lost isn't really occupied by the Shamibelians per se. It's patrolled or visited by them. It's not really a firm border with Firans on one side and Shamis on the other -- it's more like a very hostile wilderness where your likelihood of running into something or someone that'll kill you is very high."

[Public] Alexa says, "A DMZ, Akiva?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Not exactly."

[Public] Akiva says, "More like a hostile frontier."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "No man's land."

[Public] Akiva says, "I'd imagine a god could hide his shrine if he wanted to."

[Public] Akiva says, "But it's probably not visited."

[Public] Akiva says, "Ever see the movie "Last of the Mohicans"? It's kind of the way they talk about the frontier there. Wild, dangerous, and full of enemies who may not have farms and fences but still roam about preventing you from living there in peace."

[Public] Steph feeds Amber a bite of her homemade chocolate lava cake, and says, "Also, it's terrible territory. The Griffons weren't like the Ticanee. They didn't exactly get up and move. They were pretty bitter about it, and salted the fields, and set fire to every goddamned thing they couldn't carry."

[Public] Akiva says, "Yep! Flaming pits of grue and oil and tar, booby traps, salt."

[Public] Akiva says, "It's nasty."

[Public] Akiva says, "Why did the Griffons split from the GDs?"

[Public] Steph notes that the Griffons are not above biological warfare either. They stuffed corpses into wells, they let things rot and let the sewage flow in the direction of the Shamibelians.

[Public] Brandon says, "Not that that's any better than the GD lighting corpses on fire to choke their Griffon opponents in Scirlut."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Firalut's nasty. Rubble and sewage and a moat of rotting corpses."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Firalut Reconstruction Fund hard at work? :P"

[Public] Alexa says, "Steph, how did Uf become the patron of the Griffon clan? Anything special, or just one of those hazy 'always been that way since time began' things?"

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria says, "Because Nestra's hushand wanted to run away with his mistress... I am just curious on their different coloring."

[Public] Steph says, "_Why did the Griffons Split from the GDs_. There is no definitive historical answer to that question, but there are some rumors. According to some Griffons, it was because the Gold Dragon Clan Leader, Firalon, fell in love with a strong, independent minded woman who was his equal in every way, which pissed the Gold Dragons off to no end, and caused them to break away. It was the Griffons, after all, who claim to have historically held Anarinuell. (The Gold Dragon stories are different.)"

[Public] Akiva says, "I think Uf's patronage is the reason why the Griffons get the short end of the stick. She's a loon."

[Public] Akiva says, "She probably thinks it's funny to watch them all suffer. ;)"

[Public] Steph says, "According to some Gold Dragon stories, Clan Leader Firalon ran off with a slut, and left his wife Nestra behind, and caused a war that had to be avenged by his own son."

[Public] Mahir says, "Isn't rotting corpses an affront to Unot, and technically soul death?"

[Public] Professor Amber steals more chocolate lava cake. "So what about the difference in colouring? Did that just evolve over time? I've long been curious about that, too."

[Public] Steph says, "Other Gold Dragon stories say that it was actually Nestra who was the Clan Leader, and that Firalon was her distant cousin who tried to get the throne, and failed, so ran off with another woman to found his own clan."

[Public] Vasyklo says, "So there's no mention about Nestra fighting Firalon?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Shamis don't have souls. And neither do cows."

[Public] Steph says, "If you ask the really learned scholars, they will all huff and puff and say that Juni was blonde and Nestra was dark haired. But others will say that can't explain the coloring of a whole clan."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Unless they were very prolific childbearers."

[Public] Steph says, "Oh, and I forgot another Gold Dragon story."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Taria has nothing on them! :)"

[Public] Brandon suddenly pictures the Firans arguing over creationism vs. evolution.

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Maybe Uf turned them all fair, since they were her chosen people."

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria says, "One of Rasmus former players wrote a scroll with a reason for that, the coloring."

[Public] Do Not Upset Mr. Bigglesworth Ronti says, "We can't decide if there is one god or many or if we are all nuts and totems are the way, Brandon"

[Public] Steph says, "Another Gold Dragon story says that Firalon was Clan Leader, was seduced by Juni. She then killed him, and ran off with his son to found the Griffon Clan on her own. And thus, this is why they hate the Griffons, because they were founded by a murdering whore and her bastards."

[Public] Akiva says, "That, or over the course of generations the people migrated around and intermarried and the GDs married the northern Summan clans and came off more dark for it."

[Public] Steph says, "Thus, when they call Jalil a 'Griffon Bastard' they are meaning more by that than a simple insult to Tazi's honor."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "But the GDs have the Eagles between them and the Summan clans."

[Public] Akiva says, "Maybe they didn't back then."

[Public] Akiva says, "Maybe the Eagles lived more southerly and moved north along the river."

[Public] Akiva says, "People migrate. :)"

[Public] Professor Amber thinks it's safe to say, though, that Firan history is quite murky past a certain point, so definitive answers for some things are unobtainable.

[Public] Steph says, "Originally, it was the Griffons who were closer to the Eagles, in Anarinuell. It was Firgalas who drove them out."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "For the most part the fair-coloured clans are southernly, and the dark ones northernly."

[Public] Vasyklo dunno. I swear there was also a story about Nestra fighting Firalon in a duel of some sort. Maybe it was on the website.

[Public] Steph says, "The Dragons claim the city is rightfully theirs, and have a million 1000 year old grievances that they will claim to prove it. The Griffons however, were the ones to control the city most recently before Firgalas and Elianos invaded."

[Public] Alexa says, "Are the Shamibelians the only reason that the GDs have been (barely) content to leave the other clans alone instead of trying to absorb them? Given the level of animosity between GDs and Griffs, and general mono vs poly animosity, it's hard to comprehend what's keeping them in check."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Er, anyway. Jalil was asking how long the royal Griffons had held the staff before it was yielded to Firgalas."

[Public] Steph considers Alexa's question. It's more complicated than this, Alexa, but the short answer is Yes. They are an imperial clan. And they really hate the griffons. They hold grudges for a long time.

[Public] Steph says, "The historical record on who held the staff before Corista is sketchy due to the fact that the Shamibelians burned down the Great Library."

[Public] Akiva says, "What's keeping them in check is that more or less everyone would unite against them at this point, and that unless they had very strong leadership and a tactical advantage, the combined poly clans would smack them. Hard. They might win eventually, but there'd be so much blood shed that there wouldn't be anything left to rule over."

[Public] Do Not Upset Mr. Bigglesworth Ronti says, "You can't win a war on two fronts."

[Public] Akiva says, "But yes, the Shamibelians help in that sense."

[Public] Akiva says, "We'd have probably all died in civil war if not for the threat of the goats."

[Public] Brandon says, "At least, you hope everyone would unite against them. Maybe they'd unite with them."

[Public] Steph says, "The Republic helps too. When they were an individual clan accountable to nobody it was easier for them to invade and take over cities."

[Public] Okatik says, "I find it hard to believe many armies would march on behalf of the lowly Griffons. Little profit in it, and it spreads the GD armies out even more."

[Public] Alexa says, "The Republic's been reminding me of the United Nations lately. Lots of talk, not much oomph."

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Oh, oh, Steph, what was Mt. Doom before the Great War?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Have we had a major civil war, Alexa?"

[Public] Steph says, "In some respects, Alexa, it serves the same function too. Lots of talk, lots less wars ;)"

[Public] Akiva says, "(The answer to that question is: No.)"

[Public] Akiva says, "Scirlut was the worst it's been in a long time, and that was largely a bunch of very suicidal people acting like idiots on their own, with relatively minor aftershocks felt throughout the rest of the Republic."

[Public] Alexa thinks the Scirlut thing was pretty major, Akiva.

[Public] Akiva says, "_Very_ minor aftershocks."

[Public] Alexa says, "And the Hydra-Eagle war."

[Public] Akiva says, "That was years ago."

[Public] Akiva says, "Literally."

[Public] Jalil says, "There were politics involved that prevented much intervention in Scirlut."

[Public] Akiva says, "No land traded hands, and if not for Zeysani's death it likely would've ended fairly straightforwardly."

[Public] Akiva says, "You may not see what the Republic does, but it does a lot. Just because nobody suits up in Republic green and goes out to put down uprisings doesn't mean there's no work done."

[Public] Akiva says, "If there're uprisings, really, we've -failed- to do what we're supposed to do. O:)"

[Public] Steph thinks the Republic gets a lot of credit in the Scirlut Solution.

[Public] Ruanos says, "On the plus side there hasn't been a riot every 4 days like the old days. *whistful sigh*"

[Public] Akiva mutters. Should've listened to me months before it got that bad. ;) But yeah, it turned out about as well as it could have.

[Public] Steph says, "It was pretty innovative. Of course, it's a cauldron waiting to spill over into a genocidal civil war between the two halves of the city, but it did create a political solution that people seem to be living with."

[Public] Steph says, "As long as Republic soldiers can man the divide, the city seems ok. But when you guys get stretched thin..."

[Public] Akiva says, "If."

[Public] Joey laughs.

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier points to his question above on Scrilut. "I trust you Republic types will keep things in order." :P

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria remembers the first Clan Council on it, the people at Scirlut, - the traitors - were compared to the shamis... good thing they became more diplomatic along the way...

[Public] Akiva says, "That's the plan, Javier."

[Public] Akiva says, "I'm more worried about the Chimera. But they're 'C' and we're past them onto 'G' now."

[Public] Steph says, "What other Griffon questions do we have?"

[Public] Akiva says, "Would it be thematically okay if they ceased to exist?"

[Public] Akiva says, "I mean. There aren't that many of them. And it'd solve a lot of problems."

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria says, "How widely known is Marano's story, the Golden Feather and other interesting sort of legends like those?"

[Public] Okatik says, "Seriously. I couldn't agree more."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Well the are two times the size of the Ticanee so if the Griffons could get wiped out logically the Ticanee could as well."

[Public] Steph says, "Also, theoretically, the Griffons are a great fighting force, and contribute mightily to the Republic's forces at the front."

[Public] Steph says, "Unfortunately that does not always bear out PC-wise."

[Public] Steph says, "It's been sort of frustrating for me that the Griffons never seem to take their egalitarianism and run with it. Their greatest female warrior was a Bear named Zayes."

[Public] Akiva says, "When your other clans are topping 1 million, a wee clan of poor, broken 40k is just not going to be equipped to train and field a real force."

[Public] Akiva says, "Or whatever they're up to these days."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "152k?"

[Public] Steph says, "They are when those other clans aren't almost all conscripted, which the Griffons are."

[Public] Carana misses Zayes =(

[Public] Professor Amber is kinda fascinated by how egalitarian the Griffons are. They don't seem to /care/ which gender you are in general.

[Public] Orfi has an odd question. Percentage wise? How much of the military does the Griffon clan make up?

[Public] Steph says, "A lot of Bears don't fight, and only half the Dragons do."

[Public] Akiva says, "And the logic of genetics will bear out that most of them aren't suited to combat physically or spend half their time out with childbirth."

[Public] Jalil says, "There's nothing really to stop other clans from greater conscription, though."

[Public] Akiva says, "And they don't have the money to arm themselves well."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "But it's been donkey's years since I played a Griffon."

[Public] Steph doesn't have that answer off the top of my head, Orfi. It's stored in a big spreadsheet that Jeanne waves a magic wand over periodically.

[Public] Ruanos says, "Most of the military is actually the small Ticanee and Griffon clans."

[Public] Alexa tries to figure out the wording for her question. Uhm. Is there something... intrinsically special about clans that they don't appear and disappear like third world nations in our world?

[Public] Arik says, "Didn't the Griffons just recently put together one of of the largest force in recent history together?"

[Public] Professor Amber would argue, as she made a point of earlier, there's a logical point where conscription has to stop or the clan can't feed themselves.

[Public] Akiva says, "And got most of them killed."

[Public] Steph says, "There's a difference between a clan that has had universal conscription forever, and another clan that suddenly goes, "Ok, everybody suit up!""

[Public] Akiva says, "Scirlut was a pyrrhic victory for them."

[Public] Carana keeps trying to encourage folks to be more military like have their kids learn weapons and such but folks want to be the "odd" Griff

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Tics = 64k, Griffons = 153k, Chimera = 307k, Hydra = 488k, the Trice = 1.1 million?!, Eagle = 1.8 million, Bear = 1.9 million and GD's = 2.9 million."

[Public] Steph nods to Alexa. Clan medallions.

[Public] Steph smirks at Akiva. "Do you think so?"

[Public] Akiva says, "But the real answer is that they have a seat at the table, and until they're utterly wiped out to the point that they can't have someone sit down and represent them, they'll be a clan."

[Public] Alexa says, "Are the medallions why the Republic works so hard to keep all of the clans viable, even if it'd be easier to absorb into another clan?"

[Public] Jalil thought Griffon conscription was a relatively recent thing.

[Public] Akiva says, "Ask Judano?"

[Public] Steph says, "And yet, somehow that medallion made it back home. Do you think it was entirely a coincidence?"

[Public] Akiva says, "I think it was 'divine providence'."

[Public] Steph says, "Do the gods like the medallions, do you think, and vice versa?"

[Public] Dicci gets lost. Which medallion made it back home?

[Public] Akiva says, "It's an interesting intellectual challenge."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "well not nessesarily"

[Public] Adan says, "It's like the Euthyphro, Steph. :)"

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "Vahl tried to change the clan"

[Public] Steph says, "Okatik, I didn't really say -that-."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "the Hydra clan"

[Public] Akiva says, "What would it take to utterly eliminate a clan?"

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "some one could conceivibly do the same"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "The Clan Council came damn close to trashing the Cockatrice."

[Public] Steph says, "After all, the Ticanee tribes appear to have had some medallions, and many of those tribes are gone now."

[Public] Akiva says, "(That was a rhetorical question)."

[Public] Alexa doesn't really understand the medallions except they're big and shiny and bling.

[Public] Steph says, "Theoretically anyway."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "I believe it was suggested that they christen a ferry 'Cockatrice,' put Nydiam on it, push it out to sea, and divide the people among the other clans."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "The Trice are still huge though."

[Public] Akiva says, "They didn't used to be."

[Public] Akiva says, "The clan stats are whacked."

[Public] Adan says, "We also have some guidance from the God Laws."

[Public] Akiva says, "You really can't have the kind of growth that occurred in the last twenty years without massive starvation, plagues and overcrowding."

[Public] Steph is answering questions about the Griffon Clan ;)

[Public] Professor Amber gets out the big stick of Staying On Topic Silly. It's SOTS. Which would have been more appropriate to the Eagles.

[Public] Daemon Daemio is coming in late... did we talk about how the Griffon clan feels about Judanus, Luna and how the Scirlut thing was handled?

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "Has the Griffon clan been able to rebuild at all?"

[Public] Orfi says, "ok, other than Velani, are there any truely major griffon heros that were born in the clan?"

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "Srenni's mother?"

[Public] Okatik says, "Wasn't Agarn born in that clan?"

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "Argan and Zayes"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Zayes was born Bear. :)"

[Public] Steph says, "Regarding growth, one thing to keep in mind, is that even though our clan stats are wacked... and we have it on our list to fix... the Firans lost a huge amount of their population in the great war. So their population growth has not yet exceeded the space in which they were already living. So yes it's off, but no, they shouldn't have all died from starvation yet. Disease maybe, but not starvation. Damn disease code."

[Public] Alexa says, "Agarn was Griffon."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "oh do I didn't know that"

[Public] Carana nods, "Agarn was a Griff

[Public] Akiva says, "They salted their lands. And babies? Really no good with a plow."

[Public] Steph says, "It's been two generations since the great war. They can plow."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "the griffons have lost more land than anyone else too I think"

[Public] Fiero says, "Steph, I'm curious about the politics of the Sennet family. In news Sennet it speaks of many wanting that family to take the Medallion, but due to their loyalty they supported Tazi. Is there an actual story surrounding that event or was it just pure 'history'"

[Public] Steph says, "Also, the original Firan people managed to live in this area without beasts of burden. That's changed too, so they have a lot more power to make food and plow and such."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "It's been 4 decades since the Great War. I find that kind of scary."

[Public] Joey says, "They don't have much by way of cities, that's true."

[Public] Akiva says, "What the Griffons are really known for, sadly, is a bunch of bad decisions, a few mistresses, some poisonings, and disgraced members. (Or former members)"

[Public] Steph says, "I don't understand what you mean, Fiero, by 'actual story' versus 'pure history'?"

[Public] Akiva thinks he means events in the tabletop versus written background?

[Public] Daemon Daemio thinks he just wants you to elaborate.

[Public] Fiero says, "Like was it played out or was it part of the back story. Sorry I'm not really sure what of Firan was here or on the table top or just written"

[Public] Akiva says, "That happened before the tabletop."

[Public] Akiva says, "AFAIK."

[Public] Steph says, "The Griffons are also known for dogged determination, gritty practicality, good relationships between the genders, and more enlightened political thought than many of the clans--particularly when it comes to morality."

[Public] Jalil says, "I think Tazi ruled after the Sennets died out."

[Public] Okatik says, "Have you ever had to take ooc steps to try and stabalize the Griffon Clan? It seems like their inconsistant leadership, no offence to you Carana, I know you're working! But inconsistant leadership at the top must really hurt them."

[Public] Fiero says, "News Sennet suggests otherwise."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "actually Jalil according to News Sennet we helped put your mama in power! The clan apparently wanted us to take the medallion"

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria says, "one of the story says that a side of the Sennet supported Tazi as CL vs one of them becoming CL"

[Public] Steph says, "Ah, Fiero, it was sort of played out on the tabletop actually in the Caldera City when Tazi was given the medallion."

[Public] Steph says, "But the Sennets were no where around, so it wasn't a very long scene."

[Public] Fiero says, "I see. I was just curious if we had record of the events surrounding it, I assumed it was destroyed."

[Public] Carana says, "I'm a leader but hardly at the top, think of me as the grunt, day to day stuff. Carana only got the position because no one else was around to do it, and then really only keeps the position because the populace likes her."

[Public] Carana knows her place sadly

[Public] Steph says, "Okatik: I have taken OOC steps pretty much every other month with the Griffon Clan, including this one. The Clan has had some rough luck on the PC side."

[Public] Okatik says, "Believe me I understand, Carana. I've played a Griffon before, I know it's tough."

[Public] Akiva says, "There is absolutely nothing grittily practical about the way the Griffons handled Scirlut. None."

[Public] Pay Attention To Karish says, "what's so tough?"

[Public] Steph says, "Akiva, they had every reason to think they could win. And the law was even on their side. Had a few things gone differently, they'd have won the city and we'd all be singing a different tune right now."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "well Akiva that's what I was wondering about. How the clan thinks about the whole Scirlut mess"

[Public] Orfi says, "half a city is better than no city"

[Public] Steph says, "It only got to be a close thing because of some strategic errors and some bad rolls. I don't want anybody thinking that that war could have gone a different way."

[Public] Akiva says, "I sat down and talked with both sides of the Griffon leadership well before Scirlut escalated to a point of war. And they were really on the edge of getting nothing. They were blindly devoted to the idea that they could take the whole pie."

[Public] Steph says, "They could have taken the whole pie."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Let's deal more with thematic info than political opinions. :)"

[Public] Brandon says, "That's my favorite part of Firan plots. There is rarely, if ever, any pre-determined outcomes. Anyone can do anything. Period."

[Public] Arik says, "So on that note, thematic info. What do the Griffons think at this point about the war. Bad idea, Got cheated, Going to finish it in a few years?"

[Public] Akiva says, "The issue wasn't that they couldn't take the city. The issue was that if they -did- take the city, the GD populace would've been morally enraged to the point that they would have demanded full on war from Jalil. And if they didn't get it, they would've deposed him as a Griffon bastard -- hell, they almost did even without. :)"

[Public] Daemon Daemio would think that they might have been insulted that Jalil was 'giving' them the city in the first place. The griffons strike me as very very VERY proud people.

[Public] Akiva says, "GD Civil War=Very Bad For Everyone."

[Public] Alexa says, "We're due for one soon, aren't we?"

[Public] Jalil says, "I didn't give Scirlut to the Griffons."

[Public] Jalil says, "I gave it to my son."

[Public] Steph says, "Arik: The Griffons got half a city. They think it's only a matter of time before they will get the other half. The Griffon populace is not content, but they are grimly accepting of the cost that it took. This is their ancestor's land, and you know how Griffons are about the spiritual links to their lands."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "When he married into the griffon clan!"

[Public] Akiva says, "They're sentimental warriors clinging to a dying land and a past that is noble but far, far behind them, while their citizens live in abject poverty with little hope of escape."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "Gah we're the Silver Fangs of Firan"

[Public] Steph says, "Unfortunately, the Griffon PCs do not always behave the way the NPCs want or feel. And the disconnect is probably most profound in that clan than any other."

[Public] Mahir says, "I'm curious about something, wasn't Latta also a great military hero too, aside from the previously mentioned Agarn?"

[Public] Alexa says, "She developed into one, yes."

[Public] Dicci says, "That's interesting. Why do you think that is?"

[Public] General Specific Nicole says, "Yes."

[Public] Arik says, "Thanks Steph. Well I think it's also hard for them. The griffon personas are more subtle than most of the other clans. They're closer towards being well... normal at least IMHO. :)"

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Those Griffons do hate whores though. Dunno where that came from."

[Public] Steph says, "For example, in the early years of the game... Jalil was a great griffon hero. He wasn't the political leader of the Griffons. He was their golden boy. They loved him. He bitch slapped the Dragons. He caused trouble. He caroused. He gave them pride. They loved him. But a few years later... when all those PCs were replaced with new players... no memory at all."

[Public] Steph says, "And any time any Jalil would go on the Griffon Channel he'd be met with complete hostility."

[Public] Steph says, "So the clan tends to lack institutional memory. And I'm not sure how to fix that OOCly."

[Public] Akiva says, "I think most clans do, really. I think the Wiki will help!"

[Public] Akiva says, "Look, I don't want them to be anything other than what they are. But it seems to me that they've been really focused on random stuff, and it's not necessarily doing them any favors as a clan. And then the Republic has to step up and kind of shield them from the fallout of their actions."

[Public] Daemon Daemio thinks it's hard cause the clan totally as you pointed out, lacks the fixtures other clans do... in a lot of ways it's a clan of teenagers and children

[Public] Okatik says, "I think once they get a core group of regular players in there for others to emulate things will get better. If there are players willing to take that on."

[Public] Akiva says, "Er. This is all just my opinion, by the by."

[Public] General Specific Nicole is of the opinion that it ain't the Griffon clan that's been stirring up a bunch of IC foo lately ;)

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria says, "Funny. I had that impression when I started playing a GD, that that were angry at Jalil because they liked him and he turned to... the dark side!"

[Public] Steph does not at all agree that the Griffons are troublemakers. There is a clan that is the traditionally most difficult to control of all the people, and whose bullying causes most of the civil wars on the grid. That's the Gold Dragons. They know. Tehy're proud of it. And I love them for it. But I wouldn't credit the fact that they are ICly bullying imperialists to being the fault of the Griffons.

[Public] Alexa says, "Well, Akiva, perhaps most of the goals that the PCs can understand seem to be more of the 'cling to the past' thing. Trying to move forward is a nebulous goal without having it defined for you."

[Public] Jalil says, "Yeah, most of that is my fault."

[Public] Adan says, "The Griffons ask for it. If they just /gave up/ their lunch money, there wouldn't be any trouble."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "On the Jalil thing, and other stuff, I'm looking forward to things like bios for current political figures on the Wiki, so stuff is written down instead of relying on collective memory."

[Public] Steph hahahas to Adan.

[Public] Akiva eyes Adan. "You know, cops always say that when a mugger asks for your wallet? Give it to them."

[Public] Steph says, "Vasyklo, the reason Griffons have distaste for whores is that they think it's demeaning and abusive to women."

[Public] Akiva considers. "Would they get behind boy whores?"

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "Alexa I think the move forwards chars are there. I think bringing back the Sennets was a good start in infusing more new blood in the Griffon clan (even if we're forever suspect for being former slaves)"

[Public] Jalil says, "We're not evil. :("

[Public] Alexa says, "The Sennets are relatively newly introduced, Daemio. And damn, it's hard to type your name with my dyslexia."

[Public] Daemon Daemio knows they are

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Well. The Sennets as a family have been around for ages."

[Public] Akiva says, "You're the Galactic Empire. But feel good - you get your very own March!"

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "At least this incarnation"

[Public] Akiva says, "I remember there being a bunch of stuff about the Sennets, and trying to recover proof of their nobility. It's good story."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "but until Geesha came around you had like no nobles in the clan over 25"

[Public] Akiva says, "And really old IC stuff in the game."

[Public] Steph says, "The Dragons are like, my dearly departed grandpa."

[Public] Fiero says, "Even married out of the clan Fiero has to bust his butt and work three times harder than others, to prove himself"

[Public] Fiero says, "At least, in his mind."

[Public] Orfi says, "Ok, I'll ask. Steph, what direction would you like to see the Griffon clan to go to... what can players do to help?"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Well, Fiero's a former slave. No clan's going to accept him completely."

[Public] Adan says, "Should ask about that: Griffon nobility. Lot of missteps. How do people feel about stuff like Sennets v. 2.0 and IstaZayes?"

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "Redeeming the family is the first step! Then we take back Ellish! Rawr!"

[Public] Akiva says, "I think that's hard, but natural. There's a lot of suspicion about people who come back from the Shamibelian lands, even if they aren't noble."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "Fiero has been doing good for the family"

[Public] Joey says, "Talk pages with long political rants."

[Public] Steph says, "He loved his family like crazy, he was good with his hands, he was there in a fight, he signed up for wars, did his duty, and was an all around macho guy. But he also was a wifebeating bigot who thought it was wrong that god put our oil under the arabs."

[Public] Steph says, "Ok, I lost track of the griffon questions.. and amber is buried I think."

[Public] Akiva says, "I think it'd be really good for the Griffons if they managed to get a Republic general or two in the next few years."

[Public] Orfi says, "Ok, I'll ask. Steph, what direction would you like to see the Griffon clan to go to... what can players do to help? (repose)"

[Public] Professor Amber digs out, shovel in hand. Griffon questions?

[Public] Vasyklo says, "I still have one Steph! What was Mt Doom before the Great War? Was it really a temple? Is that common knowledge?"

[Public] Jalil was curious how long the Griffon royals held the staff of the high priest.

[Public] Akiva thinks that one got answered, Jalil -- nobody really knows because the records burned in the Great War.

[Public] Steph says, "Orfi: I would like to see the Griffons military-beef-up. I want to see them make generals, and be over-the-top militaristic. If a Griffon child doesn't want to pick up a sword, its parents should be horrified and want to adopt a new one to replace it."

[Public] Jalil says, "Oh. Thanks Akiva."

[Public] Akiva says, "Sure. I had to scrollback to read it. :)"

[Public] Adan says, "Should ask about that: Griffon nobility. Lot of missteps. How do people feel about stuff like Sennets v. 2.0 and IstaZayes? (re)"

[Public] Giana says, "Sennets are awesomer."

[Public] Steph says, "Vasyklo: Mt. Doom as far as the Firans know, was just a mountain b/4 the Shamibelians got to it. But then again, they thought the Caldera City was just a mountain too, and yet, the Giants did a lot of stuff in there.."

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria blinks. Wow... replace him with an new one?! Sounds like something I heard for a ticanee IC. *grins*

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "It sounds Hydran to an extent. :P"

[Public] Okatik says, "Someone ought to write up a Griffon warrior code."

[Public] Steph says, "The Griffons are supposed to be tough-minded. They can't afford cheap sentimentality or weakness. They're not Hydrans. But they're not Eagles either. They need to pull themselves up."

[Public] Akiva says, "Besides Uf, what gods do the Griffons favor? I don't see it in the newsfiles, but maybe I didn't look in the right place."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "They're mini-Dragons?"

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "Steph we've been talking about how we don't have enough kids. I was just saying I wanted to start cadets... but there's just me!"

[Public] Carana says, "I think we had a draft somewhere Okatik..."

[Public] Akiva says, "Orphanges that double as military training schools!"

[Public] Steph says, "Daemio: Start adopting the ones who look like they can wield a spear."

[Public] Giana says, "You don't need to be a cadet. Practice swords with the grownups."

[Public] Okatik says, "It might be a good way to draw in players Carana. And provide some direction."

[Public] Fiero says, "That's Fortuna's gig"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "What's the Griffons' stance on 'girliness?' I mean, say, would they prefer to see their clan leader in a nice uniform at a formal occasion than in a stola?"

[Public] Carana says, "And I will be implimenting the "No CoS before you can prove your skill with a weapon" rule I think."

[Public] Do Not Upset Mr. Bigglesworth Ronti says, "Boy, am I glad my alt is already an adult"

[Public] Carana says, "I think there is a balance...i mean a Griffon Noblewoman is expected to be just as comfortable in silks as she is in iron"

[Public] Steph says, "Sennets vs. IstaZayes. The Griffons universally hate the IstaZayes family. It reminds them of two things that annoy them. First, that Zayes was a Bear, not really their own. Second, it was the noble house of Draugik for a while. So it not only does it remind them of foreign-ness, it reminds them of haffies!"

[Public] Steph says, "The Sennets, by contrast, remind them of a good noble house, but they don't trust the lot of them. It'll probably take a generation of Fiero's hard work before they are trusted."

[Public] Dicci says, "Fiero isn't even a Sennet anymore, though."

[Public] Giana says, "And mine. Am I cut glass? *pouts*"

[Public] Akiva thinks oldbloods should adopt neos if they become noble, versus starting new families. But sometimes it's hard if there aren't any existing oldblood families to do it.

[Public] Fiero says, "Fiero is always a Sennet, Dicci"

[Public] Dicci says, "People forget so fast who used to belong to which family - I think because the players forget. It /does/ get hard to keep track."

[Public] Fiero says, "When things are going well, He's a Teranzik. Things blow up. He's a Sennet"

[Public] Akiva says, "He could go back to being a Sennet someday. It's not impossible."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "bah on the neo nobles."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "Sorry ic prejudices slipping out there"

[Public] Mahir nods with Daemio. "Run them out of town, the lot of them!"

[Public] Okatik says, "If Griffons were smart they'd try and get him back. They need people like Fiero, even if he might be a Shami spy. ;)"

[Public] Akiva says, "I think it'd be neat if the Griffons went hella Amazonian."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Although, thematically, if someone is widowed or divorced, they stay with the family they married into. However, in practice, nobles are often demanded back for political reasons. And stuff."

[Public] Steph says, "The Griffon Clan is much less picky about women warrior/leaders/ladies than the Bear Clan. They've got no problem with a noblewoman in armor, and it's acceptable if she's in a stola--as long as she looks like she could get back into armor quickly. They're ok with her being equal in every way. She doesn't have to repress herself to maintain her authority as in the Bear Clan. On the other hand, neither are women revered in the same way they are in the Bear Clan."

[Public] Fiero says, "Geeya would be an awesome asset to the Griffons, with the correct player. She's a great character. imo"

[Public] Fiero says, "Geesha to"

[Public] Professor Amber thinks really Amazonian noblewomen would be neat to see in the Griffons, since it's one of the few clans they'd be taken seriously in.

[Public] Carana has a few in the works.

[Public] Steph nods to Amber. That was the hope. Nala was.

[Public] Steph says, "The griffons don't have the same sexual prudery that the Bears do either, but you can better believe that if a griffon _noblewoman_ were to stray an inch, there'd be hell to pay."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "What about a griffon _nobleman_? Whoring when your wife can whallop you isn't a good thing."

[Public] Steph says, "Ie. If you're a Griffon commoner, you get a _bit_ more leeway sexually. If you're a Griffon noblewoman, you're SOL on that front."

[Public] Carana nodnodnodnodnods, "Makes it so hard for a noble lass with her husband away playing with elephants."

[Public] Steph says, "Griffon women remain pissed off that prostitution was legalized, and will make life a living hell for the men that they catch doing it."

[Public] Steph says, "So that's another thematic point I'd love to see followed up on in the Griffon Clan."

[Public] Fiero says, "Why are they so bitter that Zayes was a bear, but embraced Eve as their own? Did she have griffon blood?"

[Public] Carana says, "Well see, at least our house had strict rules about mistresses and whores. If one stepped in the door, they and the nobleman were in deeeeeeeeep trouble."

[Public] Dicci says, "Jinny got commonered for sleeping with someone."

[Public] Daemon Daemio says, "it's bad taste to bring the women you're boffing home in any clan I hope"

[Public] Mahir says, "Well, Jinny /was/ a commoner, and a Cockatrice to boot."

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria says, "for sleeping with her ex-husband... that had lost the title for some reason I don't remember"

[Public] Professor Amber says, "It's disrespectful to your wife/mother/sister/daughter to bring a commoner woman you're eeshaing to their home."

[Public] Fiero says, "I believe he was slandering high ups"

[Public] Fiero says, "Did someone notify Taleo of that?"

[Public] Daemon Daemio nods Amber that's what I thought

[Public] Fiero says, "I think he missed the memo"

[Public] Zaruell says, "I, as Ronosh, once brought Boadacia into the Manosik mansion."

[Public] Steph says, "They are bitter that Zayes, being a Bear, gets her own noble family named after her. Eve didn't get a noble family named after her. She just married Judanarius. It's not the same at all."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Besides, royals' spouses are normally from other clans. It's all in the name of political connections."

[Public] Daemon Daemio had a noble woman alt who once said loudly that she reserved the right to burn anything in her house that was ever touched by a whore and the bill for the replacements would be sent to the man who brought the woman there.

[Public] Fiero says, "I think the Luna/Judanus thing was supposed to be a...new begining..I could be wrong."

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Maybe the Griffons lost a bit of their identity. The Chimerans seem very similar. They are all required to learn a weapon, and most of them are required to be in the militia."

[Public] Arik says, "Well a lot of the Clans are still trying to kinda hold onto their respect/self-respect in the Republic. There's a lot more embarassments than pride points these days."

[Public] Adan says, "Sort of related, sort of not -- do we know the average lifespan of a Firan player?"

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria blinks... of a Firan player?

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Player, or character? :P"

[Public] Orfi thinks he means average of how long a player holds a character

[Public] Arik says, "There's a survey somewhere on the IB about average retention. But I don't think it's for characters so much as how long people have been playing."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Seven years, one month and three weeks!"

[Public] XX Adam says, "It's about 64 years old, Adan. According to Brent's thing."

[Public] XX Adam says, "Discounting death by execution or falling griffon."

[Public] Adan says, "I guess my general point is that none of these Clans have institutional memories because -- some of us here have been here for ages. Akiva, Amber. Me, somewhat, tho I'm more in the middle of the pack. Most of the players haven't been. And this is all a mess that's too hard to figure out, like catching up on the last ten years of the Young and the Restless. People just give up trying to figure it out."

[Public] Adan more meant Adam, 'How long the average player plays on Firan/has played on Firan.'

[Public] XX Adam says, "Oh, we have that, too. Somewhere. Hold on."

[Public] Arik says, "Even those of us who have been here close to seven years have a hard time remembering a lot of this stuff you know..."

[Public] Kelarik says, "There's an awful lot to remember."

[Public] Professor Amber nods to Adan. I have lived and breathed Firan for so long, some of this just comes naturally to me. I started Theme Hours in part because I suddenly realized how much the average player is in the dark.

[Public] XX Adam says, "Data on http://www.legendary.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=7487 ..."

[Public] Ruanos says, "One issue is when you leave for 2 months and return, about 50000 things happened while you were gone ;)"

[Public] Adan says, "Firan has been around for ages and has a very, very Soap Operatic structure."

[Public] Zalman grins "actually soaps are different as someone said... you can watch a soap for a bit, go back about 5 years later start watching it again and get caught up on what's happened between times, relatively soon.

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Anyway. Any final Griffon questions for Steph or myself?"

[Public] Steph listens.

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Steph, what about Firanos's most holy temple in the eastern part of Griffon territory? Does it still exist and do people visit it?"

[Public] XX Adam says, "The weighted average is 4.07 years per player."

[Public] Mischa Barton as Della missed the start of the questions. Was the question of griffon kid chargens asked already?

[Public] Adan says, "Is there any hope of reconciliation with the Gold Dragons, do you think? Judanus was supposed to be that bridge, I guess, but."

[Public] Steph says, "They say it still exists. But nobody visits it. Shamibelians are in the way."

[Public] Arik says, "We've kinda touched on this. What's the most important thing to most griffons? Family? Land? Self? Personal History? Bloodline?"

[Public] Steph says, "Adan: Judanus was going to be a bridge between the two clans, but that did not pan out. Right now I don't see any way of patching up the differences."

[Public] XX Adam says, "Jalil could bridge (could have bridged?) the two clans, too."

[Public] Steph says, "Arik: That's a tough question. Historical Honor is probably #1. Survival is #2. Sometimes they reverse."

[Public] Arik nods, "So Honor is uber-important. But they're pragmatists. Awesome."

[Public] Akiva says, "I think part of their willingness to risk everything for honor might come from the fact that the initial shock of being so badly wounded has had some time to heal - it's been enough generations now that the horror and fear has morphed into pure anger."

[Public] Akiva says, "I'd love to see some Amazonian behavior. A circle of women's warriors who hunt and fight and train together. It'd be neat."

[Public] Orfi says, "that happens on the other side of the city... in the blue and whites. :)"

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria hrms. Honor for the griffons... I am curious on what would the #1 for each of the clans. I don't remember it being asked at the theme hours I saw.

[Public] The Gondarus says, "What does it take for burnt cities like Firalut to be rebuilt? It seem to this player to take forever. Is it a matter of their CL expending clan coin to the effort?"

[Public] Mahir says, "A circle of women warriors? What, the clan council has broken up?"

[Public] XX Adam says, "1,000,000 ERP."

[Public] The Gondarus says, "Spensive."

[Public] XX Adam says, "You'd be surprised how fast that could be gathered. ;)"

[Public] Jalil says, "I was gonna say, that's not actually that much."

[Public] The Gondarus says, "I suppose if they bought it from other Clannies, that's true."

[Public] Pay Attention To Karish says, "what's the purpose of rebuilding the city?"

[Public] Steph says, "Griffons actually have a lot in common with the Ticanee, as someone previously noted. And the two clans have repeatedly sought alliance with one another probably for that reason."

[Public] The Gondarus says, "Karish, it'd be like a fortress. A military strength."

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria says, "oooh A circle of Women Warriors! The griffons should do that!"

[Public] Pay Attention To Karish says, "so helpful during military season? any practical advantage in-game, day to day? Ah, taxable income."

[Public] Galanthis says, "Wasn't Draugik a Vasen-Darkas not an Ista-Zayes?"

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria nods. The name was given after the whole Draugik thing... same family though...

[Public] Steph says, "Yes, but Zayes was a Vasen-Darkas."

[Public] "Rainbow" Randolph Smiley Javier says, "30.4 RL years for one playerto get 1 million ERP through sleep cycle. Assuming a person sleep/nap cycles 3 times a day."

[Public] Vasyklo says, "I'll grab my old Firanosian alt for that one! Er, I roleplayed that he went there when I went on vacation. I didn't realize the old temple was in Shami land now."

[Public] Akiva says, "Well. Be fair. He picked Ranazeel as a pent prize and all his spawn was killed. :)"

[Public] Mahir says, "Adam, does that count temple accounts too?"

[Public] Pay Attention To Karish says, "what would it take to rebuild the OC into a more fully functioning area?"

[Public] The Gondarus says, "Fully functioning?"

[Public] Mahir says, "IC response: 'Why waste the time? It'll all get washes away next flood."

[Public] Pay Attention To Karish says, "just curiosity, really."

[Public] XX Adam says, "No, Mahir."

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Griffons! Griffons! Any Griffon questions before I slam the gavel and pronounce us closed?"

[Public] Akiva says, "The buildings kind of slant funny from time to time, and it smells like pond."

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria says, "Griffons had great OC gangsters... they also did well at the Olympics ;)"

[Public] Akiva says, "There're a lot of Griffons in the OC."

[Public] The Gondarus says, "This has probably been answered, but what's the Griffons' foremost point of pride?"

[Public] Steph says, "_The Griffon's Greatest Point of Pride_: The Griffons are very proud of the fact that they were the buffer between the other clans and the Shamibelians. They could have all fled, but they didn't. Nala stayed and fought, with her army, and the Griffons got almost anhialated to save the Firan people as a whole."

[Public] Steph says, "They are not proud of getting slaughtered, but they take immense pride for their sacrifice, their honor, and the way that they destroyed all their belongings, all their lands, booby-trapped their cities, salted their fields, to deny Shamibelians. They are very proud of that."

[Public] The Gondarus says, "That's awesome. Everyone needs to know that."

[Public] The Gondarus says, "Doesn't make you feel like a small clan when you realize why you're a small clan."

[Public] Akiva says, "It is. They really are in some ways the embodiment of the spirit of resistance. Never give up! Never surrender!"

[Public] Pay Attention To Karish says, "the griffons are like WWII Russians"

[Public] XX Adam says, "They should have a slogan: We Bought Your Freedom."

[Public] XX Adam says, "Or, Your Freedom Was Paid For With Griffon Lives. Something emo. ;)"

[Public] Okatik says, "Our greatest generation!"

[Public] Akiva says, "Also known as: "You will pry this land from my cold, dead hands, you sodding goat.""

[Public] Vasyklo says, "Yeah. There isn't much known about Nala either. Just an emit a while ago about her getting dragged away from the Shami defense after being wounded in the neck/heart."

[Public] Steph nods to Akiva. "They should carve that somewhere ;)"

[Public] Akiva says, "They should!"

[Public] Akiva says, "Actually, the great temple arch at the Sacred Path commemorates the Warriors of Three. They weren't all Griffons, but a lot of them were. They were led by Velani."

[Public] Carana says, "We'll paint it on the walls when we clean up the grafetti finally"

[Public] Steph nods to Akiva. Yes. Sometimes I am not sure newer players actually look at the monuments.

[Public] Akiva says, "It seems like the Griffons have kind of been lost. I think this theme hour was a really good way to help remind people where their clan came from. It's worth being proud of. :)"

[Public] Steph says, "Perhaps a good Griffon Morale booster would be for the Griffon Leaders to make a new monument to the fallen of the great war and remind people of that sacrifice."

[Public] Adan says, "Darius and the Phalanx is, I think, a Good Example of what the Griffons are all about."

[Public] Ruanos was just thinking that, Steph.

[Public] Steph says, "Yes, say what you will about Darius, but that story out of Scirlut was cool."

[Public] Akiva says, "It was!"

[Public] Arik says, "I can't Darius seriously. I still remember him having to get slapped because he was crying at war. :P"

[Public] Okatik says, "Cool from a distance, not so cool close up. ;)"

[Public] Akiva says, "Sometimes the story is more important than the 'hero'. Or the deed itself."

[Public] Steph grins. Well, nobody has to know the truth. We like to remember Achilles the fighting machine, not the boy hiding in a woman's dress.

[Public] Akiva says, "And sometimes the heroes don't even get their stories told."

[Public] Minnie Driver as Saria says, "He is one tough cookie. I remember him surrounded by dragons that would 'accidentally' shoot at them every now and then and still he would tell them to surrender and chant griffon songs ;)"

[Public] Arik grins and nods, "It's still funny. Situations tend to make the heroes. Not the other way around." :)

[Public] Akiva says, "Griffons should be big on Remembrance Day celebrations. It should be a very important day for them - they lost so much."

[Public] Steph says, "Actually, Akiva, you just gave me an idea."

[Public] Steph thinks that she's going to randomly go through a number of Griffon PC sheets, and tack on, "Remembrance Day" is a very important holiday for your character.

[Public] Professor Amber says, "Thank you all for showing up! Our next is scheduled for Sunday afternoon -- the Gold Dragons -- although be forewarned if I end up busy this weeknd it may be rescheduled. We are now more than halfway through the clans!"