Theme Hour on the Hydra Clan
From FiranMUX
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Wiz meeting just adjourned. Give me five to catch my breath, and we'll start. Thanks for your patience. :)"
[Public] Daemio says, "what no wiz of the week?"
[Public] Fiero sets the timer.
[Public] Professor Amber snickers. I just told the meeting I think I'd be lynched if I cancelled Theme Hour. :)
[Public] Riven laughs.
[Public] Professor Amber says, "That said, although I will tonight and tomorrow's on schedule, we are likely going to cut back to one Theme Hour a week so I don't get burnt out, and other wizzes may take on running some as well. :)"
[Public] Daemio says, "sounds good Amber"
[Public] Evius says, "But... we want yoooooooou"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "But I'm not the only wiz who knows theme!"
[Public] Ruanos says, "Lies!"
[Public] Professor Amber specifically asked for Hydra-savvy wizzes to back her up tonight, even!
[Public] Adan signs up to run THEME HOUR: Monotheism Rulez.
[Public] Professor Amber eyes Adan.
[Public] Adan slink off.
[Public] Joey pokes Adan with a sharp stick. "Back behind the line!"
[Public] Zhara warms you all up with a nice.. COMMERCIAL!!! *cue music* Are you sitting at your KB, waiting for your friend to pose? Did your alt die in the massive conspiracy TP? Are you just dying to play a Ticanee? Check out DEIPHOBUS ANIRIK! He needs a player. You get to RP with the Dawn Family, live in the Dawn house, and eat their food. Check out Deiphbous TODAY!!! *This commerical paid for by the Committee to get Zhara's Husband off the Roster, Void where prohibited*
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Have you been reading my Crazy Amber's House of Chargens postings? :)"
[Public] Daemio hopes Crazy Amber's opens a branch in the Griffon clan!
[Public] Zhara blinks innocently at Amber. "No, O Great One. But I shall, immediately!"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Now for the Hydras. The Hydrans -- actually, rather like the GDs, which we covered on Sunday -- tend to get something of a bum rap from players OOCly, so I'd like to spend a lot of time focussing on what's fun and different about them. I've asked Joey, Ginny and Jeanne (if she gets her head out of code) to be my assistants tonight, so give my assistants a wave."
[Public] Daemio waves to the lovely assitants.
[Public] Professor Amber says, "(Joey is particularly lovely.)"
[Public] Joey preens.
[Public] Ginny sits in Joey's lap.
[Public] Dicci thinks we need photographs of him with cats.
[Public] Gondarus waves to Joey, Ginny and Jeanne. They rhyme!
[Public] Joey says, "We're alliterative. ;)"
[Public] Javier says, "Greetings to Amber's beauties! :)"
[Public] Evius says, "Amber's Angels"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Anyway. The Hydrans are believed to be one of the oldest Firan clans. They are known for being strict, spartan even, and of late have been gripped by devotion to the 'rediscovered' Warrior Code which demands very strict standards of behaviour for both genders."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "They have recently had a fairly combative relationship to the Republic, in large part due to the policies of Clan Leader Belik, who liked to think he didn't have to listen to the rest of the Clan Council, to the point of actually leaving the Republic for several years. After Belik's death (and everyone thought he'd /never/ die), they were gripped by civil war and rebellions until Amenik was of age to take the medallion."
[Public] Selia's dad was a tough old bugger.
[Public] Ruanos says, "He's not dead. It was faked."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Now, I will open up to question unless my Angels want to interject anything."
[Public] Joey just poses prettily until the questions come.
[Public] Adan makes it simple: Why would I want to play a Hydran male? Why would I want to play a Hydran female? What's /fun/ about them?
[Public] Evius raises his hand. "Why monotheism?"
[Public] Rodiste raises hand, "Amber, you said the Hydra Clan is one of the oldest... what other clans were around at the beginning along with the Hydrans?"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "No one knows for sure, Rodiste, because a lot of records were lost, but many believe the original Firan clans were Hydra, Eagle, and Gold Dragon."
[Public] Joey says, "Hydran males are fun, and take this from a die-hard liberal, because they are in many ways an antithesis of modern values. Unless you live in certain states, I suppose. But I always loved Hydrans because they were so different from me, and that was a great thing to delve into for RP."
[Public] Rodiste nods, "Ah. Cool! How old is the mono religion approximately?"
[Public] Ginny says, "I love Hydrans because of their sheer loyalty and lust for perfection. Nothing is simple for them, though things are more black and white -- Its much harder to live within the white zone."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "As for monotheism, Belik, along with Firgalas, helped pioneer the True Temple. You could argue that monotheism -- particularly in the idea of a strict father figure -- might be well-suited to the Hydran culture, as it was for GD."
[Public] Ruanos says, "Plus there are certain Hydrans that are known to not be so stiff when behind closed doors."
[Public] Professor Amber would say 60 years, more less? 70?
[Public] Adan says, "Male is the easier question. Why play a Hydran female?"
[Public] Evius says, "So, how do they view Obala/Drik?"
[Public] Adan says, "There's an 'On Drik' scroll in the Great Library, Evius."
[Public] Furen says, "I play a Hydran alt who doesn't fit easily/nicely within the Warrior Code culture. He's old. He's a ridiculously nice guy, but he tries really hard to be a good Hydran. And I don't think he would be a fraction as interesting in any other clan."
[Public] Dicci says, "We get to pick on the boys!!! at least until we grow up. Making Rinzik wear hairpins and a pink tunic was the highlight of my IC life."
[Public] Adan says, "It represents only the writer's view, but."
[Public] Malatan says, "I play something of a Hydran misfit myself."
[Public] Joey says, "Because it's the same thing. And I've seen very good Hydran female players, many of them who have played Hydran females for literal RL YEARS from Arinzi and even to today, that know how to manipulate their strong husbands. Often these women are real powers behind whole families, and many people like to play that Rasputin-esque role. Plus - why play a criminal? Why play a Bear? You could ask that question of anyone - it boils down to RP preference."
[Public] Ginny says, "Females! They are absolutely devoted to their families. Think of something more romantic... Victorian women. They had the same rights and such. Their men took care of them, treated them like princesses. The right Hydran man would do so."
[Public] Adan thinks that's Gold Dragon, Ginny.
[Public] Saria says, "and that is GD! Hydras never seen to mention the Dark side as much.."
[Public] Ginny says, "Yes and no. I see it in a more scaled down manner."
[Public] Rodiste nods, "60 or 70 years? So, before that the Hydra Clan was poly like everyone else?"
[Public] Professor Amber believes so, Rodiste. They may or may not have had an emphasis on Zutiv before; I'm not sure what form their polytheism took. 'News Zutran' -- about a sacred city now in Hydran lands -- is an interesting read.
[Public] Rodiste cools and reads up! :)
[Public] Joey says, "Hydran women get whatever their husband wants to give them, most of the time. He can be benevolent, or he can be cruel."
[Public] Adan has argued the roots for monotheism as worship of Zutiv is in the Zutran landing.
[Public] Okatik played as Pangaros way back when, and I would feed Senika Istabelik information on occassion. "Just takes some subtleness to have power in that clan."
[Public] Joey nods to Okatik.
[Public] Okatik says, "For the women that is."
[Public] Ginny says, "Hydran women have to be very intelligent. Crafty, to get the men to do things they way they want them without realizing it."
[Public] Daemio nods to Ginny
[Public] Daemio says, "A lot of the Hydran women have a lot of control in their families they just don't show it off."
[Public] Fiero says, "They also have to be smart enough to know their husbands limits and just how far they can push him and how much they can get away with before getting smacked."
[Public] Adan will move from question to statement: I think with Hydran theme as it is, Hydrans will stagnate. You can claim all you want from the outside that it's a "challenge," but that's one of those things where people who are not in the situation will say, "Well, sure, your character is going to be executed, but think of the RP that generates!" It's a lot harder when you're in that situation. The Hydran clan is the clan of CAN'T. Why play someone whose life is dictated by what you cannot do?
[Public] Saria says, "Hydra women seem to have a lot more power now than before, they seem more and more like the GD ones... was it with the Warrior Code?"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "I find 'can't' more interesting than 'can do anything!'"
[Public] Adan says, "But it's pretty much all can't. I mean, can't drink, can't whore, can't gamble, can't wear warm clothes in the winter."
[Public] Adan says, "It's the anti-fun clan."
[Public] Malatan says, "But strength comes from struggle."
[Public] Evius says, "There is a scroll in the Library? I'll have to read it."
[Public] Joey says, "I don't find text-based drinking all that fun, personally. ;) The RP is centred around other things."
[Public] Saria says, "I think that it is more a "you shouldn't and if you do, don't get caught!""
[Public] Joey says, "There's nothing wrong with that."
[Public] Okatik says, "What can you do that's unique? Anything?"
[Public] Kelarik says, "Ah, but if they're subtle, there is still the possibility of all of those things. They just have to be done 'under cover'. :)"
[Public] Saria says, "Rasmus' essays, Evius"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Then angst over restrictions. Or flaunt your self-discipline. Or do it and be clever about it. And so on. I think it's more interesting working with -- or around -- restrictions than being able to do /anything/. Because the latter means less conflicts, and conflict = story."
[Public] Dicci thinks, okay, and this is my opinion, so it may not go over well, but this is what I think. I think a lot of people don't buy the business about 'The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world' and they don't buy the argument that Hydra women have as much power as men because they can manipulate their husbands. They don't because they shouldn't. People make those kind of arguments in RL to justify the oppression of women, and it's BS. Now, it /is/ possible for Hydra women to 'win' sometimes by manipulating their families and so forth. And it's great fun when it happens. But it doesn't always happen, and if having constraints on your IC power due to misogyny bugs you, I think the Hydra aren't the clan for you.
[Public] Daemio says, "some times it is actually best for the family to push their husbands. It makes them look strong when the husbands put them in their place and reinforces the status quo for everyone. Like Amenik got a lot of SP when Senika 'acted out' but she also got SP for testing him."
[Public] Joey says, "It's like Ellish - some people didn't like being a Shamibelian. Some people did. It's always going to be split between people who like playing X, and people who don't. It's not an 'OMG, calamity' situation."
[Public] Furen says, "The thing is, there are IC constraints to anyone's power."
[Public] Dicci says, "That said, I am with Joey. I think it's fun to play a character in a misogynist culture, either from the male OR female side, because as a liberal and a feminist, it helps me to /understand/ those dynamics better... and because from the female side, it's darned fun when I am successful in ICly turning things on their head and getting one up on the men."
[Public] Gondarus agrees with conflict = story. And besides, Hydras do break rules sometimes... the forbidden fruit is so tasty to pluck.
[Public] Dicci says, "Yes, Furen, but there are especially offensive ones to some people and that's a big part of the OOC problem people have with the Hydra Clan, as I understand it."
[Public] Joey nods to Dicci. Exactly. I think the Hydras have a very unique story, and one that I know I personally have enjoyed for years.
[Public] Daemio says, "Dicci you've pretty much nailed it"
[Public] Professor Amber thinks, Dicci, one of the things about Firan is a general ability to separate OOC contemporary morals/viewpoints from IC ones is needed. It's even more required with some clans than others.
[Public] Daemio says, "they're one of my fav clans too (even if I don't have one right now)"
[Public] Furen says, "Oh, I do understand and I wholly agree with you. But from a pure gaming perspective-- everyone's going to have something or the other they keep running up against."
[Public] Okatik says, "That's a great point Dicci. And Adan is right too, it's easy for someone not in the situation to make excuses."
[Public] Furen says, "I mean, I keep getting thrown in jail for some reason. Uh."
[Public] Malatan says, "Haha."
[Public] Adan says, "Do you think the Hydran clan has a healthy playerbase at the moment? That is, it has as many active players as it should?"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Because we're not in a modern world. Misogyny, racism, and abuse are all thematic to a degree. And if you can embrace the differences -- without letting them affect you OOCly -- you will have a richer RP experience. Or something. :)"
[Public] Evius quotes Jim Carey to Furen. "Stop breaking the law *beep*hole!"
[Public] Dicci nods to Amber. I think all of us can help out with that by recognizing more that, from an RL perspective? The culture of the Hydra Clan is pretty messed up and most of us wouldn't want to live in it. From that point we can go on to understand why it's fun to RP stories within it despite that.
[Public] Joey says, "It has a lot of active players. More than some other clans. We aren't lacking Hydrans, either, or else we'd have a chargen drive for them."
[Public] Joey says, "But really? This is theme hour."
[Public] Joey says, "Let's get back on track."
[Public] Hattie says, "I enjoy my small victories and accomplishments like watching Javier read and approve some scrolls."
[Public] Ginny says, "I don't necessarily think its messed up. And I know women who would love to be treated the way Hydran women are."
[Public] Professor Amber thinks the Hydran activity has improved a lot recently. In fact, when I had Nicole draw the numbers for PC balances, I was really happy to see how many Hydras we have on grid at present.
[Public] Adan thinks the two are intertwined, Joey.
[Public] Ginny says, "Some women really like someone else to be in command, in control -- to be responsible for the bad things."
[Public] Professor Amber thinks some people in general are like that. :)
[Public] Terodor says, "or to take care of them so they dont have to worry about money or anything. I know I'd like to have a nice guy to pay the bills and make sure I dont have to worry about where my next meal is coming from."
[Public] Adan says, "From theme staff's perspective, tho, has the Warrior Code been a success in 'redefining' the Clan?"
[Public] Dicci says, "Yes, and some people hate women in RL too. But, if we OOCly defend the Hydra Clan culture as if it's a good thing, that's going to turn off a lot of people."
[Public] Terodor says, "heck its my dream oocly to have a Knight in Shining Armor take me off somewhere and take care of me forever :)"
[Public] Joey knows there are some people who have dissatisfaction with the Hydra theme. I simply think these satisfactions would be a fun thing to take IC. If you think the HWC is killing the Hydra clan, say it as your character. Make it fun.
[Public] Gondarus says, "There is such thing as women who like to roleplay submissiveness, while not actually being in that situation IRL. :)"
[Public] Malatan says, "I really like playing Hydra. There is a real sense of community, OOCly, I think because it is a clan largely comprised of people who have chosen to be a part of this group that does get kind of a lot of OOC flack for sexism, lack of booze etc."
[Public] Dicci says, "Exactly Gondarus."
[Public] Professor Amber thinks discussions about RL gender politics and how they relate to Hydra aren't necessarily relevant to Theme Hour.
[Public] Terodor says, "gender politics?"
[Public] Furen says, "I will say that from a Hydran male perspective-- I play a character who is pretty easily manipulated. I don't think that my character is necessarily unique in that. Some men put up a tough front, but they aren't immune to being influenced. I really do think the women have some real power. Even if, one day, I'll play one just to see it from other other side."
[Public] Kassia says, "Being a Hydran can be amazing, but it is not really something easily seen externally. It has a rich culture and very old history. Personally, I feel it is constantly evolving. Yes, there will be low points, but also high points. But to be honest -- if things were always balanced they would be stagnant and boring."
[Public] Okatik says, "Well from an IC perspective, I had a Hydran friend and because of the restrictions I couldn't do anything particular fun with him."
[Public] Ginny says, "I know many women who don't care how they are treated, they want that overwhelming feeling of being protected. You can look at it from the perspective of constant beatings and hatred of women, or from the perspective of loving and cherishing them to the point of trying to protect them from all things bad. Perhaps not realistic, but not so depressing."
[Public] Daemio says, "any how. Amber! I have always felt there was a struggle between the N'Gato clan and the Istabelik family over control of the clan. Has that resolved? Does most of the clan fall behind Amenik now that he's clan leader and has heirs?"
[Public] Terodor nods at Furen. They do have some power, even if nobody realizes it. I mean, who would take care of the kids and make our food for us, since we men cant? Its not really a submission/dominance thing, but a symbiosis
[Public] Malatan clears his throat. Taking care of the kids, what?
[Public] Joey nods to Terodor. The women are proud of their work and their place in the family, generally.
[Public] Daemio is apparently Political Journalist Daemio
[Public] Saria is curious with what were the biggest changes in the clan with the Warrior Code. This appear to be a lot different to me now, but I only ever played before then.
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Now that Amenik is an adult, the throne is steadier than it was while he was a sickly child heir, yes. However, I wouldn't say the clan is a hundred percent behind him."
[Public] Kassia smiles at Daemio.
[Public] Terodor says, "well, in MOST cases, Malatan. There's always bad apples :)"
[Public] Malatan says, "The roles are highly stratified but there is pride for a woman to take in her role, provided she is fulfilling it well, just as there is pride for a man to take in his."
[Public] Beatrix says, "So! Amber! What was the Hydra clan like before monotheism! Since the religious view is kinda new, I am wondering what their historical landscape is like."
[Public] Beatrix says, "And how did they shift from what they were to what they are now!"
[Public] Daemio nods. It's hard to gauge with him on the roster. Thanks for clearing that up.
[Public] Joey says, "And the Hydra warrior code actually somewhat empowers women. At least, it allows them to demand a man prove his right to dominion over her."
[Public] Terodor says, "on the entire kid thing, if I may ask... what DO the boys get to do back to the girls for teasing them? I got a few answers and they were rather all over the place..."
[Public] Anorista says, "Mwuahahaa."
[Public] Malatan says, "Learn stoicism."
[Public] Professor Amber thinks we've already covered that to an extent, Beatrix. But as far as I think, I think they were always were sort of Hydran -- spartan, plain, restrained -- and becoming monotheists emphasized those traits, like monotheism reinforced the Gold Dragon's Gold Dragonism, if that makes sense.
[Public] Okatik says, "Does having a mostly female staff hurt a Clan like the Hydrans? They seem to take their fair share of ridicule on occassion, along with the GDs too as being backwards and dumb."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Here's an interesting thought for y'all. How many know which clan is most closely related to the Hydrans, blood-wise?"
[Public] Dicci says, "Bears."
[Public] Kassia says, "Bears?"
[Public] Fiero says, "Bears"
[Public] Saria saw other changes though... When Saria was little she had to hide that she could read, now women even control shops, actively craft... some of those hydra women had crafts as part of secrets but that the new hydra women can freely do
[Public] Adan says, "Bears."
[Public] Joey says, "That's more of being outnumbered among the clans in religious views and views on women, is my guess."
[Public] Dicci wins!
[Public] Daemio says, "Bears"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Belik, in fact, was born a Bear."
[Public] Terodor says, "Really, Malatan?"
[Public] Zalman says, "yeah bears because that dates back to the Summans"
[Public] Daemio points out again that Selia's Aldrik's closest female relative besides Sabine :P
[Public] Terodor says, "so they just try to ignore it? I was told they could beat the girls up."
[Public] Malatan never had to deal with it that much IC!
[Public] Javier says, "If Belik was born a Bear then how are the Bears not one of the oldest clans? :P"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "History time. :)"
[Public] Daemio says, "Belik's mother (iirc) was sister to the Hydra Chieftan who died without heir?"
[Public] Terodor glances to the staff on the topic.
[Public] Professor Amber says, "The Summans. A people that threatened the Firan clans ages and ages ago."
[Public] Daemio says, "Aldrik was his sister."
[Public] Joey says, "Terodor, the girls get to pick on the boys so that the boys toughen up."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Eventually they were restrained, and two Hydrans were sent to rule over the Summans -- who became the Bear clan."
[Public] Terodor knows that much, but what can the boys do back, if anything?
[Public] Zalman grins "and if the rumor held true that Belik's older than Zutiv where there even clans when Belik was born :) *runs and is kidding*
[Public] Kassia says, "Omissa and Pomas, right?"
[Public] Terodor says, "do they try to ignore the girls, yell at them back, beat them up?"
[Public] Joey says, "That's not entirely defined by the warrior code. Ask your family, or try to get away with stuff. :)"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "And Daemio is right. Belik's predecessor was a childless Hydran clan leader. His sister married the Bear CL (a rare male Bear CL), and when they had two children, a boy and a girl, the boy was sent to the Hydrans to be fostered and become eventually CL. The boy was Belik, the girl was Aldrik."
[Public] Nodin says, "what's the honor in beating those up you are supposed to protect as an adult? ;)"
[Public] Daemio says, "Amber so was that Eurytion and Yumah?"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Yes."
[Public] Terodor says, "that's why I'm asking, Nodin"
[Public] Malatan says, "I think that it would probably be looked down on if you were to succumb that much to the torment."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "So before Amenik reproduced, the next in line for the Hydran throne were the IA males and the princes (through Sabine)."
[Public] Saria says, "Why are all the N'- are hydras if they come from the summans that became bears?"
[Public] Daemio nods Sadin was considered the heir apparent for years iirc
[Public] Professor Amber says, "I'd also argue despite their different views of gender the Bears and Hydras are not quite as dissimilar as they seem, since both clans value propriety, tradition and restraint -- just in different ways."
[Public] Fiero says, "I had wondered about the Summans. I've seen a few Hydrans wearing items with Summan in the name. Like Arika and Adan's wedding necklaces...so the Summans are the ancestors of teh Bears"
[Public] Selia bats at Daemio. Stop putting targets on my back. :)
[Public] Professor Amber thinks there was a certain degree of intermarriage, Saria.
[Public] Daemio says, "I'm sorry Selia."
[Public] Selia grins.
[Public] Professor Amber says, "People moving back and forth across the river in the north."
[Public] Daemio nods don't the N'Gadaniks come from the Summans too?
[Public] Adan says, "The Summan connection is reflects in the N' in noble names."
[Public] Rodiste nods and was going to ask that also, Saria. As I thought the N'Gato were considered descendants of the Summans and hence the "N'" prefix."
[Public] Daemio says, "yeah that's what I thought"
[Public] Terodor glances to Joey.
[Public] Joey says, "Yes, Daemio. N'G generally means Summan ancestry. Capital G, as trivia, is nobility. The N'Gadaniks were once the N'gadaniks. :)"
[Public] Fiero says, "Wow"
[Public] Rodiste says, "Interesting."
[Public] Daemio says, "oh I didn't know that"
[Public] Riven says, "That's neat trivia."
[Public] Saria idly wonders if Unsel is related, he is only missing the N'. *coughs* nevermind ;)
[Public] Selia suspects, really, that the hardest part of playing a Hydran is that people paint the entire clan with the brush of weak, spineless women and their violently abusive spouses, which really seems to me to be the exception rather than the rule. So it's a lot to wade through ICly and OOCly. Plus, there's ex-Amenik's point that playing the stoic warrior is not entirely conducive to rp interactions. At least... the former is the hardest for me. It gets frustrating to field the same tired tropes over and over again.
[Public] Rodiste says, "So, is the N'Gato family older than the Istabelik family?"
[Public] Terodor hates to keep being bugging about this, but I still dont know how boys are allowed to react to girls teasing them....?
[Public] Professor Amber thinks, Terodor, the point of the girls being allowed to tease the boys is so the boys develop their stoicism early.
[Public] Okatik says, "Selia use to have to defend the Hydran ways in public so often that I always wondered why she bothered to leave her district."
[Public] Daemio says, "The Istabeliks never had a last name Rodiste, much like many royal families."
[Public] Terodor says, "I know that Amber. but WHAT can the boys do back?"
[Public] Daemio says, "like Zeysani"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Be stoic. :)"
[Public] Terodor says, "are they supposed to resist? Thanks."
[Public] Terodor wasn't sure. I keep hearing different things, so an admin's call is what I will go by :)
[Public] Daemio says, "They're suposed to learn to suck it up Terodor"
[Public] Adan says, "The stoic warrior is sort of boring."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "They can do anything they like if they're prepared to accept the IC consequences, but I think the point is to learn to suck it up."
[Public] Selia says, "It goes in cycles, Okatik. I stop leaving the district when I get so fed up with it that it makes me want to quit. :)"
[Public] Joey says, "It's an exercise in learning to control themselves."
[Public] Arik says, "Dude you can get into all kinds of trouble being stoic."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Is a stoic warrior any more difficult than the icily composed Bear woman?"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Or more boring?"
[Public] Daemio thinks it's harder
[Public] Evius says, "Stoic warrior? Boring? Not according to Frank Miller"
[Public] Arik says, "I personally suggest the call your CO's an idiot stoicness."
[Public] Malatan says, "I think that I have seen the stoic warrior done extremely well IC and I don't find it boring at all. Although, er, I don't play one."
[Public] Adan says, "Would say 'yes,' Amber."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "I don't think so, personally. I think the very stoic characters can be very complex and very rewarding to RP."
[Public] Terodor has played stoic/emotionless before, and finds it quite fun. I play two vulcans and a very haughty, hardly-emotional elf on other games and I enjoy it. Its a challenge, mind...
[Public] Joey would say, unequivocally, 'no'. It's a very fun role to play.
[Public] Furen says, "Or, I suppose, a floofy Eagle lord or a combative OCer. I think that stoic is occasionally harder to hook, because you're /not/ calling attention to yourself."
[Public] Terodor says, "you can't get anymore stoic than a vulcan. :)"
[Public] Daemio didn't say boring but harder.
[Public] Tyrsun plays that type, and still gets a fair amount of role-play. "Stoic warrior doesn't necessarily mean unmoving and uninvolved, with no interests beyond seeming emotionless."
[Public] Terodor says, "man, now I wanna play a more stoic warrior :)"
[Public] Joey says, "And many times, a facade can be removed when in the comfort of the home."
[Public] Adan says, "A 'proper' Hydran male can't go to so many events on the @calendar. Either because it's pagan or too celebratory or."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "And, also, just because you're playing a Hydran, doesn't mean you have to be the stoic warrior. Deviations from type can be fun to play off the type."
[Public] Terodor says, "or under pressure... everyone can snap."
[Public] Selia says, "I don't think his point was that it was boring, but that it can be limiting in its rewards. But then, I think that ex-Amenik took quite a bit more ribbing than anyone else in the clan for simply being Hydran."
[Public] Joey says, "Adan, a Bear woman can't go to a lot of them either."
[Public] Terodor nods in agreement. Terodor is hardly stoic. He's the grumpy old uncle of the clan.
[Public] Joey says, "That's why we have alts."
[Public] Arik says, "Stoic is usually, 'seeks to act without emotions' rather than actually IS without emotions which is what can make them fun, but difficult. Stoic with acerbic tongue can get you pretty far."
[Public] Nodin considers playing a Hydran ;)
[Public] Malatan nods at Arik.
[Public] Saria has mostly played monos and when I played a pagan, I noticed that there was a great defensive position both ICly and OOCly as if expecting the pagan players to right away react badly at them.
[Public] Terodor says, "its like the entire warrior/husband sides in our Code... a time and place for emotions."
[Public] Arik says, "Part of it is usually finding a good group. I mean personally with Arik, I know when meeting new people he can be extremely off-putting. But he's got a few friends or at least people who just put up with him, that I keep pretty busy."
[Public] Furen says, "You don't act out. You don't make a big deal of your own personal aches and pains and losses. But you still act. And there's an appeal to restraint, a certain power that acting out doesn't have."
[Public] Galanthis says, "You know when I was playing a Hydra. I always envisioned then as Islamic Knights. Even the commoners had this sense of nobility and proud to them. You were more than just warriors. Zutiv shines on you and your family. *shrugs*"
[Public] Professor Amber is now fascinating herself with the parallel because the stoic warrior man figure in the Hydra clan with the Bear icily proper matron ideal. I think it's a case of the two clans with similar ideas expressed in different ways. Anyway.
[Public] Okatik isn't sure where the stoic Hydran came from anyway. "I mean I played as Audentus who was as outgoing and social as they come, but at his core he still was a proper Gold Dragon and Priest. I don't understand why Hydrans cannot do that."
[Public] Kassia says, "I think a lot of people forget that the restrictions in place are meant at times to 'protect' the ones you love."
[Public] Selia thinks it's a cycle, Saria. The monos get burnt and so they get defensive and then polys react to the defensiveness which burns the monos and perpetuates the cycle.
[Public] Malatan says, "Yeah, protect your family from your Warrior Self, which is like, beastly and not very nice."
[Public] Joey says, "And really, if it's IC to bend them - bend them. Not everyone follows the Hydra Warrior Code. IC consequences may result, but that's at least half the fun of playing here. :)"
[Public] Terodor says, "and from other bad things, Mal :)"
[Public] Furen says, "There are outgoing and social Hydrans, too. And ones that struggle with not showing their emotions."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "And, heck, there can be a lot of fun RPing trying to live up to an ideal and failing."
[Public] Terodor nods in agreement to Amber.
[Public] Malatan says, "/Absolutely/."
[Public] Rinzik has fun with trying to live up to that! A lot! (Curse you, Dicci.)
[Public] Kassia says, "Along with what Joey said, there is also the public face and the private one. Just because you appear to adhere to the code in public... doesn't mean you really do behind closed doors!"
[Public] Joey says, "Yes. I find that sunshine and roses is not the most rewarding RP. Quite the opposite."
[Public] Malatan is like the worst Hydran ever but look at him /try/!
[Public] Terodor admits sometimes its hard to GET the consequences when you expect them though. :)
[Public] Saria coughs... yeah. I always saw them more as Amish, until the Warrior Code. I am not sure how they are anymore...
[Public] Ginny says, "I find the most repressed people outside the home are often the most opposite of that in private. :)"
[Public] Joey says, "Spartan."
[Public] Daemio says, "Kassia actually I think what you said is a HUGE part of the code"
[Public] Malatan says, "Sparta!"
[Public] Rodiste nods and agree's with that Ginny! :)
[Public] Arik says, "I think part of the confusion (And I may be wrong) Though is it /supposed/ to be an ideal that's unattainable or very hard to be attainable? Or is it supposed to be the way they are by nature? Are 'model' Warriors the exception or the rule?"
[Public] Adan thinks he asked this earlier, but it might have gotten lost in scroll: Does theme staff feel the Code has done its job in 'redefining' the Hydrans'?
[Public] Daemio says, "the code makes it clear that a man is very differant at home with his family then he is while out being a warrior"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "I think one of the things we've talked about through Theme Hours is that each clan has a stereotype and/or ideal they're held up to -- but that doesn't mean every character embodies that. And that's true of the Hydrans as any other clan."
[Public] Selia says, "And to a much, much earlier point about Hydran women being princesses... Hydran women are just as cherished and loved as their GD counterparts, but where the GD clan seems to be all about personal glory, the Hydra clan is much more about the good of the community over the good of the individual. Hydrans don't flaunt wealth because wealth is an individual thing. The women aren't decked out in scads of jewelry and kept on display, they're expected to be a core part of the functioning community. It's just that they are expected to do so in the ways that women are 'wired' for, while men will take care of the men things. To the average Hydran, I expect it's actually abhorrent to them to see those roles crossed."
[Public] Daemio doesn't think people appreciate that
[Public] Professor Amber says, "It's an ideal. Whether it's attainable or not is really up to that chracter."
[Public] Rinzik says, "Hydra are next thing to mini-communists. All the land is held for the good of the clan, right?"
[Public] Rinzik says, "Just split between the noble families?"
[Public] Adan doesn't think so, Rinzik. Noble families hold deeds.
[Public] Selia says, "All the clan lands are split up amongst the noble families."
[Public] Tinga says, "Kind of how I actually like being the person at home taking care of the laundry, food, etc? I could just as easily be out working too, but it's a nice feeling to know everyone's clean and fed because of me."
[Public] Joey says, "Well. Noble families should have almost all of the land. ;)"
[Public] Selia says, "But the Hydrans lost a /lot/ in the exodus."
[Public] Ginny says, "Right Selia, a woman who might otherwise spend lots of time on their dresses, might otherwise be the most incredible cook."
[Public] Joey says, "Regardless of clan."
[Public] Daemio says, "Selia that's exactly it."
[Public] Terodor says, "somethign I have wondered about the mono religion... is it typical or atypical for people to ASK for a whipping to be purified or not? I've done it and seen it done Icly, and done it ICly, but sometimes i get the reactions that its not common. How DO we see flagellation? Can we ask for it to help purify the soul via physical suffering, or is it soully inclusive to Inquisitions?"
[Public] Selia says, "For an extra special glimpse into the inner workings of Selia... her entire life has been a series of masks. The closer a person is to her, the more likely they are to glimpse her true self but... there's always masks. Even in private she wears a public face, more often than not."
[Public] Riven was wondering - some Hydran architecture seems to emphasize similarity. Maybe even a little monotony? Is it because of the community aspect of things?
[Public] Daemio says, "Amber I'd love to do religious theme hours btw"
[Public] Joey says, "I think self-flagellation is certainly MUCH more Hydran than GD."
[Public] Selia says, "And I've always expected that the average Hydran works very much in a similar fashion, with varying layers of masks involved. :)"
[Public] Joey says, "Although, monotheism has a lot of scattered practices. :)"
[Public] Malatan says, "Incidentally, three lashes is a /lot/!"
[Public] Kassia says, "When a Hydran man becomes angry with a Hydran woman, usually it is because she has done something that could place her in harm's way. They merely have a more codified and rigid overprotection clause they adhere to. You have to remember they have lost a lot and are survivors in many ways. Overcompensation, in comparison, in some actions would not be an uncommon result."
[Public] Terodor nods.
[Public] Rodiste nods, "Self flagellation has been performed at a couple of the Warrior Bonfires."
[Public] Nodin says, "but the Tics have lost a lot, too ;)"
[Public] Terodor says, "now, self being you whipping yourself, or each other?"
[Public] Selia says, "It's a man's duty to protect the women in his family. When women get hurt or abused, it reflects poorly on him and his expected role. Hydrans aren't about self-glory, but reputation is /very/ important. If my reading of the Code is on the money."
[Public] Okatik says, "I've had people perform self-flagellations before at minor inquisitions."
[Public] Furen says, "When I first came into the Hydran clan about, oh, a year ago, flaggelation was one of the first scenes I was exposed to. It seems to be fairly common practice and all an extension of stoicism and being strong and purified by Zutiv. And, of course, there's that guilt element."
[Public] Terodor nods. I just wasn't sure if it was the rule or the exception. I only ever saw it done at... I think it was Gemella's prayer vigil
[Public] Terodor says, "but I haven't really seen it since then save one scene where one priest asked another."
[Public] Joey says, "Yes. Vorfus was allowed to beat his wife drunkenly, but not everyone approved, even among the Hydra. However, when the other clans started asserting Dryopi's rights - well, that's another matter."
[Public] Saria says, "Hydra punishments are also more public than the GD ones, but in my experience, most hydras are more careful when giving them and used a lot of social pressure."
[Public] Selia says, "Hydrans are very insular."
[Public] Kassia says, "Exactly, Joey! I think a lot of people perceive Vorfus as being the standard norm of Hydran males."
[Public] Malatan says, "There is a lot of emphasis on clan unity."
[Public] Saria says, "That's because she was griffon, you don't see my aunty Karin complain! *grins*"
[Public] Okatik says, "Wouldn't everyone agree that the Hydran Clan is stronger now than it was just a couple years ago though? I mean there was a point that it was a complete disaster. They just look really positive to me right now."
[Public] Terodor says, "yeah, and no matter how many Sermons I give saying to the contrary, they keep believing it :P"
[Public] Selia says, "And punishement is a public thing often because, really, it's for the benefit of the community as much as the individual."
[Public] Evius agrees with Okatik, even though his alt makes fun of them at times ICly
[Public] Javier says, "Pnuishment normally also comes down like a ton of bricks though."
[Public] Kassia says, "However, it bears mentioning that there will always be extremists in any clan. To take those characters as the spokesman or epitome of what a clan embodies is wrong because it is such a gross misrepresentation."
[Public] Terodor glances to Javier "Sometimes" :P
[Public] Ginny says, "A public beating for one son, may mean that 6 more sons in the clan will be spared as they'll learn from the one."
[Public] Hattie tries to remember re Vrofus-- he did not start beating her the last go round till she defied him and enlisted military did he?
[Public] Joey says, "He beat her off and on all the time. He was never a caring husband. ;) But she was an Eagle at heart, so. You know how that goes."
[Public] Saria meant other punishments too... not so brute, like being a year without shoes, having to breath another child in a year... the social punishment. Those that new Stone of them *shivers*
[Public] Selia says, "Wasn't the shoe thing Vorfus and Drypoi again?"
[Public] Saria says, "There was... some ladies from the other clans protested by taking the shoes off too. ;)"
[Public] Joey says, "Yes. It was Dryopi enlisting, I think, that caused the edict that she should go barefoot."
[Public] Adan juts in with a question: "Although obviously, every character is different, does Theme Staff have any long-range plans with the direction of chargens in the Hydran clan?"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "I've decided to make them all secretly potatoes."
[Public] Joey says, "(Sadly, this is not a joke)"
[Public] Adan mms. Starchy.
[Public] Professor Amber says, "No, not really. Other than directing them to make the clan active and cause interesting RP."
[Public] Selia says, "Could they at least not be towel boy potatoes? :)"
[Public] Javier says, "Anizut brand potato chips?"
[Public] Malatan says, "Haha. >.<"
[Public] Joey says, "The Anizuts are a mixed bag. ;)"
[Public] Adan says, "To refine a bit: There's been an argument that the current generation of PC's is ill-suited to be warriors. They were made when the scholar paradigm prevailed."
[Public] Furen says, "I think we have a towel boy running around somewhere."
[Public] Rodiste nods to Joey, "They are indeed."
[Public] Professor Amber gives Selia her personal towel boy potato. It disguises itself as a guard potato outside the room.
[Public] Adan says, "Will we see more physical/more warrior-like Hydran kids?"
[Public] Joey chargenned a lot of them!
[Public] Selia woo!
[Public] Terodor is a IV, so can't comment on that Adan. I made Tero deliberately to avoid going to WAr
[Public] Professor Amber says, "The Anizuts were meant to contain both Hydran warriors and a few rebels."
[Public] Malatan says, "In other words, can we have some men who are less lame than me?"
[Public] Selia's husband will kill the potato, though. He's very jealous. :)
[Public] Furen says, "Some of the younger generation are pretty tough, or sheeted to become tough."
[Public] Furen says, "Elachi was The Example, of course."
[Public] Malatan says, "Kenirugrik power!"
[Public] Javier says, "Kasi is the first real warrior! :P"
[Public] Rodiste cheers, "Kasikonus!"
[Public] Malatan says, "Elachi and Rinzik FTW!"
[Public] Professor Amber thinks most of the younger Hydrans have been written with the Hydran warrior code in mind -- either to suit it, or be a reaction to it. Yes, some earlier Hydran chargens don't fit as well, but that makes things interesting for their players.
[Public] Rinzik says, "Rinzik was cg'ed to want to be the best little warrior he can be."
[Public] Joey says, "Kasikonus, the Hydran Martyr."
[Public] Okatik says, "Seriss was awesome too as a warrior Hydran, till he went bat sh^t crazy."
[Public] Selia sobs.
[Public] Saria honestly thinks that the hydras seem maybe a bit too much GD-like now and that might have had an impact in GD... they used to be the biggest PC-wise clan when I started playing, they are a bit down now...
[Public] Nodin says, "Seriss..."
[Public] Malatan says, "When you say 'too GD-like,' what do you mean?"
[Public] Gondarus says, "Seriss didn't go crazy, he followed his conscience. :P"
[Public] Furen says, "I guess I see GD as more about glory and Hydran as more about a kind of enduring-to-the-end bravery."
[Public] Selia always sees the GD warrior spirit as being about conquest. The Hydrans aren't about conquest. :)
[Public] Javier says, "We started as mini-GD's and are now mini-Tic's? :P"
[Public] Selia says, "And Seriss went utterly batty."
[Public] Joey says, "Saria, honestly, the Hydrans have improved from a few years ago. If you want to talk about stagnation, let's talk about Arinzi. ;) (But let's not) I don't think the Hydrans are suffering for players, and many of their players are very clan-spirited."
[Public] Professor Amber nods to Selia. I think the Hydrans are more about restraint and community. They're directed more inward than the outward-looking Gds.
[Public] Terodor could use some tips sometime if staff wants to page him, on ways to improve how to play Tero. he doesnt quite work at times and I'm often unsure, so if any of you guys wanna critique him, it will help as well as help me improve his backstory for getting to III
[Public] Joey says, "And there are scholarly Hydras. They might not be completely accepted by the Warriors, but there's certainly a tradition for it."
[Public] Rinzik waves at Malatan, on cue.
[Public] Furen says, "And a lot of the older generation /is/ unsuited to the warrior code. And are never going to be awesome-keen warriors. But they're still a presence."
[Public] Saria says, "No, I mean that that change helped them but harmed the GDs. Well... the GDs were always seen as the warriors, the military guys, war, then some politics there and before the Warrior Code, hydras were more peaceful, religious, they preferred to debate than fight... the Hydra warriors to appear more interesting than the GD that don't standout for it anymore"
[Public] Joey says, "Terodor, you might want to ask those players you regularly RP with. It's hard for us to say from afar. :)"
[Public] Malatan says, "Hi!"
[Public] Okatik says, "Hydrans are the Shaolin Monks of Firan. Content to meditate on life but if you try to burn their Temple... WHAAA! Eagle Claw!"
[Public] Rinzik says, "Maybe not /Eagle/ claw."
[Public] Joey says, "I don't know. The Hydrans are the underdogs. The GDs are in charge, at least in some ways. I see both as having different kinds of appeal. It's all subjective, really."
[Public] Arik says, "Viper claw!"
[Public] Evius says, "Hydran Head"
[Public] Javier says, "Master Javier's hidden arrow technique? :P"
[Public] Dicci thinks you do a great job, Terodor.
[Public] Professor Amber sees them as quite different.
[Public] Terodor says, "really Dicci? I am not sure if I am being too floozy or too grumpy"
[Public] Joey says, "Plus, GD women have more freedom, at least in certain ways. And they are cherished in a unique way."
[Public] Saria says, "There isn't as much as a difference as before... hydra women have almost as much freedom just less sparklies *grins*"
[Public] Rinzik says, "Join the Hydra clan: we're kinder to DB bloat."
[Public] Selia has no where near the freedom of a GD woman.
[Public] Malatan says, "Hahaha."
[Public] Javier says, "Hey, I always thought of us as the Bundy clan. :)"
[Public] Joey says, "Hydran women cannot be ministers. Or in any position of power. Gold Dragon women can hold dominion over womanly things. THat's quite a big difference, actually."
[Public] Firistan says, "Selia is very restricted."
[Public] Firistan says, "Many Hydran women are."
[Public] Selia is only barely allowed to know how to read. :)
[Public] Firistan says, "That's too much, Selia!"
[Public] Professor Amber bets Selia having IA cousins doesn't help. ;)
[Public] Evius says, "Yet, to know one's boundaries allows you freedom to move within them."
[Public] Nodin says, "lock her up ;)"
[Public] Firistan says, "The IAs are a bad influence."
[Public] Selia says, "Amenik made me read in public. It was horrible!"
[Public] Joey gasps! The scandal.
[Public] Firistan says, "Though, despite the lack of freedoms, there are many roles Hydran women can play within the clan and their family."
[Public] Adan is curious: Did the anomaly of Lady Gemella impact clan views any?
[Public] Adan says, "Is she loved/cherished/romanticized by the Clan?"
[Public] Saria says, "They can freely craft things that used to be secret skills..."
[Public] Firistan says, "Gemella conformed pretty well, I believe, at least when it mattered: in public."
[Public] Javier says, "She may have had problems later down the line though."
[Public] Selia says, "Gemella totally saved our bacon. It's a shame the clan had to pretend it was done by someone with danglies. :)"
[Public] Okatik says, "She should have been Inquisitioned. She remained a Pagan Initiate to some crazy God or Goddess or something."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "She was quite well loved by the clan, but she wasn't around long enough to make any difference. If she had lived...who knows?"
[Public] Javier says, "Solian Initiate."
[Public] Joey says, "She didn't go blabbing about it though."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Her religion was protected by treaty. Whether or not the True Temple recognizes political treaties is another matter."
[Public] Firistan says, "Right."
[Public] Firistan says, "Most of the pagans that marry in have their religious rights protected so long as they're subtle about it and the kids are brought up mono."
[Public] Terodor says, "if we didnt, we would be inquisitioning every pagant coming into the district"
[Public] Selia suspects Amenik's grief over her loss has secured her a rather idealized memory in the Clan's eyes.
[Public] Javier nods. :)
[Public] Professor Amber nods to Firistan. In the case of nobles, if their original clans are smart, their religion is protected by marriage contract.
[Public] Sarina pops on. "I heard there was a theme hour query I could actually potentially answer, so figured I'd peek in."
[Public] Firistan says, "Yes."
[Public] Firistan says, "Or else no one would marry in."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "That depends. Are you laying claim to former alts, Sarina? :)"
[Public] Sarina is indeed.
[Public] Okatik says, "I always told my Mono Noble family, 'If you love a pagan god so much to put my House at risk, I'll happily disown you to go preach in the gutters'."
[Public] Sarina <-- Gemella, for the record.
[Public] Selia says, "The Hydran nobles don't really have much of a choice on the marrying pagans bit. There just aren't enough mono nobles around. :)"
[Public] Saria says, "aww! He should have tried to save their souls, taking them to the True Faith ;)"
[Public] Javier says, "Well some mono families are breeding like rabbits! :)"
[Public] Nodin says, "well...even GDs have difficulties marrying into the Hydra Clan ;P"
[Public] Saria says, "into the clan? the issue used to be that too many women were allowed to marry out and there were no 'replacements'."
[Public] Rinzik says, "How do the Hydra (or the Eagles! Although we already had their night, I guess.) feel about that Eagle/Hydra peace marriage thing, especially considering that it is only halfway completed? They gained a man a while ago, will lose a woman, probably, at some point. Are they happier about having Tarnot or angry that one of their delicate women are being offered up?"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "It's a peace marriage. It's not a completely equal peace marriage because it's not royals on both sides. They're suspicious of it, and yet appreciate the symbolism."
[Public] Sarina says, "It was a tricky one to negotiate too, for a variety of reasons!"
[Public] Nodin says, "well...there was a GD woman marrying into the Hydra Clan just recently..."
[Public] Firistan says, "Raniya came over."
[Public] Terodor may have to marry out of clan at the rate we're losing unmarried older women to the roster.
[Public] Firistan says, "For a possible player to be named later and some minor league prospects."
[Public] Nodin says, "ah"
[Public] Okatik says, "Marry a younger girl instead then. 0:)"
[Public] Selia was the amazing unmatchable Royal. It was sad. :)
[Public] Evius says, "Marry them young and make a lot of babies"
[Public] Terodor would love to Okatik, but none seem interested in me, or I see them as daughters :)
[Public] Malatan says, "Many babies!"
[Public] Terodor laughs. There's a question... if you had a son, and therefore were a Warrior, not a Cadet, but the son dies, do you become a Cadet again?
[Public] Professor Amber thinks it's the son's birth that counts.
[Public] Selia nods.
[Public] Selia nods to Amber, that is. :)
[Public] Terodor thought so. on that note, Terodor should have armor, but he doesnt, and that's okay with me. But will I have to re-steal my armor should he ever decide to return to active duty? I dont think he had to steal it since he became a warrior oodles ago
[Public] Okatik says, "Have any children accually died yet based on that warrior code comment about their punishment. And are Hydrans stealing armor for that matter too?"
[Public] Terodor heard of two who stole their armor so far, Okat
[Public] Terodor says, "though there is many questions about how you do that. Is it set up ahead of time, or do you just steal ANY armor?"
[Public] Sarina says, "At least one Hydran stole armor during the time I was still Gemella, so, yeah."
[Public] Joey says, "Either."
[Public] Professor Amber thinks that's for IC debate, Terodor.
[Public] Terodor says, "like, do we go "Okay, NewWarrior, your armor is over in THAT house. Go steal it!" or do we just hide it and they have to find it"
[Public] Gondarus wants to see a frustrated father with 5 girls, raise a girl disguised as a boy, to become a warrior!
[Public] Saria knows one that did though was outside the deal...
[Public] Adan says, "There are some occasional pre-arranged steals, I can say. :)"
[Public] Joey knows at least one Hydra was chargenned as leaving stuff carelessly around for Cadets to steal.
[Public] Selia says, "Amenik and Aldrikos put the kibosh on randomly stealing stuff."
[Public] Okatik says, "I keep expecting to see Hydrans walking around in all sorts of mismatched armor. But it never happens."
[Public] Selia says, "Talk to the warriors. They can arrange for people to steal their armor."
[Public] Saria noddles to what Selia. They are suppose to steal from there, not random people...
[Public] Terodor always thoguht it was arranged somewhat. Kind of an 'unspoken' arrangement. IE, armor is made and prepared, put somewhere, and they steal it on their own time.
[Public] Okatik says, "I'd think it would be a point of pride to have stolen a lot of armor."
[Public] Rinzik had a pre-arranged steal. Good times.
[Public] Terodor says, "no announcements or anything"
[Public] Firistan says, "Zateen was good about pilfering his gear."
[Public] Okatik says, "Dude that is so lame."
[Public] Terodor says, "so do you think Tero would have to steal new armor? I have no clue myself how he would even try that, being the klutz he is."
[Public] Firistan says, "But it's a matter of IC preference and such and how hardcore others are."
[Public] Selia says, "The Warrior Code does not exempt one from Clan or Republic law. :)"
[Public] Javier says, "Its only stealing if you get caught?"
[Public] Firistan says, "If you get caught stealing, yes, you've broken the law."
[Public] Firistan says, "Right."
[Public] Furen says, "My alt just bought his out of expediency. This is not very hardcore."
[Public] Terodor thinks the Steal The Armor thing is the one exception.
[Public] Firistan would punish anyone caught stealing.
[Public] Javier says, "Right from the Book of Bundy! :)"
[Public] Okatik says, "Steal armor in the Hydran District. It's off limits to the Republic. Duh."
[Public] Joey says, "Terodor, that's an IC issue to decide yourself. :)"
[Public] Furen says, "You're a crappy warrior if you get caught."
[Public] Adan says, "It's not stealing. It's bad strategy. ;)"
[Public] Malatan says, "That's right."
[Public] Gondarus says, "Stealing is not a right, it's an expectation."
[Public] Javier says, "Remember boys and girls, its only cheating if you get caught! :)"
[Public] Selia says, "Amenik made it very clear that anyone caught stealing outside of special set ups would be punished severely."
[Public] Saria says, "It's a somewhat consented stealing though, when pre-arranged, in that deal thing... kind of like Adan said. Because Zutiv doesn't like sneaky, bad people like that! :P"
[Public] Okatik says, "Amenik needs a cookie."
[Public] Malatan says, "That would be against the code!"
[Public] Adan says, "Warrior Code likes sneaky, Saria."
[Public] Joey says, "Saria, you're mixing IC beliefs in there, I think. ;)"
[Public] Selia says, "Amenik needs a player. :/"
[Public] Joey says, "There are probably plenty of Hydran men who prefer to do it the non-prearranged way."
[Public] Firistan says, "Sneakiness pursued for personal ends is a sin."
[Public] Javier says, "'Zutiv punishes those who are dishonest or sneaky.'"
[Public] Firistan says, "Anything goes in war."
[Public] Gondarus says, "It's not stealing if it's consented. ;)"
[Public] Selia says, "Hydrans have no problems with being sneaky and underhanded if that's what's necessary to win the war. Hence the separation between the civilized self and the Warrior."
[Public] Joey says, "It's an IC conflict between Church and Code, really."
[Public] Firistan says, "Indeed."
[Public] Okatik says, "Just find yourself an unguarded house in the Hydran District. Or an apartment. Bash in the door, and take all the armor. Simple. ;)"
[Public] Saria blinks... that's what I was told. They left things to be stolen, for the code purpose only and not cross the boundaries and take advantage of it
[Public] Firistan says, "Yeah, I think the separation between civilized self and Warrior self is a very interesting thing to play."
[Public] Selia says, "Which is why the women aren't allowed to write letters to the men at the front."
[Public] Firistan got letters but didn't read them.
[Public] Dicci says, "They aren't allowed to write letters? I missed that bit."
[Public] Saria sent to one hydra, he was all pissed off when he got back. *giggles* He didn't read it either.
[Public] Selia says, "Hydran warriors are supposed to leave all the civilizing influences behind when they go to war."
[Public] Umaish says, "many believe hydran women shouldn't even know how to read and write, at least among the commoners, nobles are at times the exception to this...."
[Public] Okatik says, "So do the Hydrans have Clan Armor? Because I seem to remember Amenik handing out a boatload of iron armor to people. How is that following the Code?"
[Public] Terodor thinks upgrading armor is okay. but you steal your first set.
[Public] Joey says, "Perhaps they stole it, Okatik. Either way, it was an IC issue that involves PCs, so it's hard for staff to answer that."
[Public] Gondarus says, "Getting free armor, or as a gift, is not against the code."
[Public] Nodin says, "don't take letters into battle with you either ;P"
[Public] Adan says, "The iron armor thing was a big PC issue at War last year."
[Public] Saria says, "There were negative SP alignments on that, the armor thing."
[Public] Malatan says, "I think the Shamibelians ended up with an awful lot of letters from Alastor."
[Public] Tinga says, "I keep having silly thoughts about all this. As hydran men don't believe women should be warriors, I almost have expected at least one to make a point to steal the armor and such from some highly visible woman warrior in order to have it melted down, purified, and turned into something honorable."
[Public] Selia says, "Most of that armor, if I recall correctly, was our ancient ancient clan armor from before they merged the arm thingies."
[Public] Joey says, "I mean... Amenik is not required inherently to follow the Warrior Code. He might stray from it too. So it's hard to look at IC occurrences as 'following' or 'not following' it, because people might have all sorts of justifications for what they do. I don't tend to keep track of them. :)"
[Public] Okatik says, "Come on Firistan, make em steal the armor for real. It will be more fun than Amenik's idea! :)"
[Public] Umaish says, "but that'd mean unless you had the required skills to be able to get into the clan armory you couldn't steal it for real..."
[Public] Okatik says, "You can totaly undercut him and call him soft while he's out of town too. Rah. ;)"
[Public] Furen says, "Lockpick and bash, baby."
[Public] Okatik says, "Buy a mask, knock in a door."
[Public] Nodin chuckles
[Public] Joey says, "Make a key, bribe a guard to keep the door open... ;)"
[Public] Dicci says, "Actually I think you're not supposed to use masks to get around witness code, are you?"
[Public] Terodor says, "even better: Volunteer to guard the armory"
[Public] Okatik says, "It builds character. :)"
[Public] Dicci says, "Isn't there a policy against that? or was it only for eeshaing?"
[Public] Okatik says, "Sure you can use masks."
[Public] Okatik says, "For criminal stuff. No clue about Eeshaing."
[Public] Umaish says, "masks don't cover up enough :)"
[Public] Umaish says, "if you know someone's build etc. you could still ID them pretty easily."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "So. Hydran questions? :)"
[Public] Okatik makes chicken noises. ;)
[Public] Terodor says, "is it in poor taste for a grown man to be single for long? What aqbout women?"
[Public] Evius says, "The Hydran land is wedged between who and who again?"
[Public] Joey says, "I think there are laws that Hydrans have to marry young."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Bears and Eagles, Evius."
[Public] Gondarus says, "What's the Clan's view of the Nekaht? There was controversy over slavery. Was that ever resolved?"
[Public] Nodin says, "yeah...there's a law about getting married before 25 isn't there?"
[Public] Professor Amber nods. Besides, in general Firans encourage marriage and babies. They need the bodies to fight the Shamibelians.
[Public] Saria says, "Both men and women start paying the fine at.... 17? 18?"
[Public] Joey says, "I think so, Saria."
[Public] Nodin says, "for Hydrans"
[Public] Nodin says, "ok...18 ;P"
[Public] Saria says, "only for hydrans because that one for the military was happily ignored by all ;)"
[Public] Evius says, "thanks, Amber"
[Public] Zaruell says, "who are the nekaht?"
[Public] Terodor says, "what about remarriage?"
[Public] Evius says, "The new group with a heavy Egyptian theme"
[Public] Gondarus says, "They're a new people we encountered not long ago. Another race, who came by for a visit."
[Public] Okatik says, "I don't think anyone plays as them anymore though. It's too bad."
[Public] Zaruell says, "Egyptian theme.. definately stephs."
[Public] Gondarus has hopes they will return.
[Public] Nodin says, "they're supposed to be on the leave"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "The TP lost steam for a bit due to some staffing issues. We're working on reviving them and wrapping up the TP."
[Public] Terodor says, "So.. Remarriages?"
[Public] Tinga says, "I seriously wanted one of the cats!"
[Public] Mahir cheers, since IC fall is right around the corner.
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Firans believe in marriage and babies, as I said. They generally encourage remarriage."
[Public] Terodor says, "ok"
[Public] Gondarus says, "So we need not worry ourselves with Hydran views of Nekaht then? I mean, once the TP ends, will we never see them again? No chance they'll be integrated into Firan?"
[Public] Nodin can't get into the TP cause my alt was in it :/
[Public] Evius says, "I would say that divorce is bad, though. Would I be correct?"
[Public] Rinzik says, "I remember hearing that the Hydra clan in particular was big on adoption, too, yeah? Am I misremembering?"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "I'm not telling you what it says on the last page of the book, Gondarus."
[Public] Saria says, "Just don't pull a Jaffus, Terodor...."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Or else there's no point to running the TP. :)"
[Public] Gondarus says, "Was worth a try."
[Public] Nodin says, "they didn't get along with the climate, Gondarus"
[Public] Okatik says, "Oh, the Hydran women have that awesome power to challenge a Hydran man to accomplish something or be like an outcast too. Now that is some control!"
[Public] Terodor says, "a what?"
[Public] Firistan says, "Like Senika did to Katarus."
[Public] Terodor is now confused
[Public] Saria says, "You know... Jaffus, who had 3 wives."
[Public] Selia says, "And if he succeeds, he can kill her."
[Public] Terodor says, "Before my time. I only been here a year"
[Public] Firistan says, "And if he fails, he lives as a beggar for a year."
[Public] Terodor nods.
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Divorce is socially shady in most clans. I think in the Hydra in particular it's discouraged, although a man can likely get away with it if they're setting aside a woman of poor behaviour/morals, or can cast her as such."
[Public] Saria says, "hmm what did happen to Katarus and Senika? He did take waaay longer than the time it was given to him..."
[Public] Nodin says, "he let her live"
[Public] Firistan says, "There were some IC things going on."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "He completed his task and declined to take Senika's life."
[Public] Rinzik says, "It was recently resolved if you follow the speeches."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Or so was speeched."
[Public] Firistan says, "I never lie, either."
[Public] Selia thinks the fallout from that isn't done yet, Saria.
[Public] Gondarus says, "Oh, Amber, a related question... what has to take place for a divorce to be legal/final? I mean, do both parties need to consent, and if not, can one party consent, and a Clan Leader rule the marriage ended?"
[Public] Selia says, "There's a news file on divorce."
[Public] Gondarus says, "It doesn't address my question, I don't believe."
[Public] Gondarus says, "Particularly about CL authority over divorce."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Generally, both parties have to consent. However, a CL can force through whatever divorce they want."
[Public] Firistan says, "I'm sure that in the Hydra clan, anything the CL and the true temple decide is OK to do...is OK to do."
[Public] Okatik says, "You have to have both wedding necklaces too. Which can be tricky."
[Public] Gondarus nods.
[Public] Professor Amber says, "The wedding necklace thing is largely based on IC rulings by the Religious Council."
[Public] Saria says, "Oh... then why do the ticanee wear them? The totem worshippers that is... and that has nothing to do with hydras but..."
[Public] Terodor says, "probably so people know they're married"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "In general, as I said, divorce is not a socially desirable thing, and divorced women are going to have a Reputation."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "/Wearing wedding necklaces/ is an old tradition."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "The sanctity of wedding necklaces in issues of divorce is based on recent rulings by the RC. 'Recent' as within game history."
[Public] Galanthis says, "Is there going to be a theme hour on marriage or family?"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "And let's stick on topic, please."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "One is planned, yes."
[Public] Evius says, "We still have a Ticanee clan hour coming up, right?"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Tomorrow."
[Public] Saria says, "There were firanized. *grins* So... what's the possible wants of the Hydras right now?"
[Public] Evius says, "And that makes all the clans"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Yep. ;)"
[Public] Nodin says, "woo Ticanee! ;)"
[Public] Evius nods and hopes he can be on tomorrow
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Then, as I mentioned earlier, we're mostly likely cutting back to one Theme Hour a week."
[Public] Rinzik says, "Adoptions! I think I heard once that the Hydra are big on adoptions. Yes/no?"
[Public] Saria aws and missed the eagle one...
[Public] Firistan says, "Any children are good children."
[Public] Evius says, "*except twins*"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "I'm not aware of them being any keener on adoptions than any other clans. That said, they like big families."
[Public] Terodor says, "where IS our adoptio center, Firistan?"
[Public] Nodin says, "yeah...you can be considered a warrior with adopted children, too, right?"
[Public] Firistan says, "And conversion to monotheism should be an overriding goal, religiously speaking. If we can bring in poly children and raise them in monotheism, all the better."
[Public] Saria says, "Yes Rinzik, not just the Hydras, the GD too. It was said to be seen as a good deed and all that..."
[Public] Firistan says, "We don't have one, Terodor."
[Public] Malatan says, "The Hydra Clan does not have its own orphanage. We use the GD orphanage."
[Public] Okatik says, "There is a jointly Mono adoption center in the GD District."
[Public] Professor Amber thinks, actually, you're not going to find a clan that's anti-adoption. :)
[Public] Okatik says, "GDs are anti-adoption."
[Public] Selia says, "Theoretically, we share the orphanage in the GD district."
[Public] Firistan says, "As far as I know, adopting a son makesa you a warrior. Katarus' only sons are adopted."
[Public] Malatan says, "Elachi and me!"
[Public] Firistan says, "And he's considered a warrior."
[Public] Okatik says, "There was a recent global emit about it, so maybe it's a new craze."
[Public] Firistan says, "He may have been grandfathered in, however."
[Public] Fiero says, "I thought the GD's were all about blood and not fond of adoption. Is that only for high ranking families?"
[Public] Saria noddles to Okatik. There were a lot of adoptions after that.
[Public] Saria says, "They can still preserve the blood Fiero, they just marry those ones out if they aren't... too worth keeping"
[Public] Selia says, "Amenik has outlawed Noble families from adopting commoners in the aftermath of Seriss' betrayal."
[Public] Fiero says, "Then why get them in the first place."
[Public] Firistan says, "Right, Selia"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "GDs are proud of bloodlines. However, there are a lot of orphans floating around thematically -- due to the war, whore children, other families being unable to care for them, etc -- and GDs aren't going to like seeing GD children go to other clans."
[Public] Terodor finds that odd. GD is anti adoption but has an adoption clinic, but Hydra is pro adoption but doesnt?
[Public] Firistan says, "There's really no need for each clan to have it's own adoption agency."
[Public] Firistan says, "The polys have Kamnestra"
[Public] Firistan says, "The polys have Kamnestra's temple and Hope's Home"
[Public] Malatan says, "Hope's Home sort of burned down."
[Public] Terodor was icly told Kamnestra's wouldnt' adopt to Monos
[Public] Okatik says, "The idea behind the anti-adoption stance of the GD was that they like to trace back their bloodlines and since Orphans cannot do that, there is something inherantly wrong with them."
[Public] Professor Amber nods to Firistan. The poly/mono divide makes more sense.
[Public] Gondarus says, "It's a matter of pro-bloodline and pro-adoptions aren't mutually exclusive."
[Public] Firistan says, "Well, that's their prerogative."
[Public] Firistan says, "Just like we won't adopt to poly families."
[Public] Joey nods to Gondarus.
[Public] Malatan says, "We have Zutiv's Blessing. There aren't as many monos, so it is not like we would need two orphanages."
[Public] Selia says, "People have been turned down in the past for being monotheistic, Terodor. I don't know if that is their overall rule, though."
[Public] Joey says, "And just because someone is an orphan, incidentally, doesn't mean they don't know their own family line. ;)"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "It makes perfect sense for the Kamnestran orphanage not to adopt to monos. Why would you give a child to a family that denies the existence of their goddess?"
[Public] Joey says, "Everyone else could simply be dead."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Er. Your goddess."
[Public] Umaish says, "they have adopted to monos before... but there may be special cases too. :)"
[Public] Okatik says, "Kamnestras orphanage doesn't adopt to monos. *nods*"
[Public] Malatan says, "Hope's Home didn't mind adopting to monos though. When it was around."
[Public] Selia says, "We have had orphans in the past who lived at the Childcare Center, Terodor. Zutriana did before she was adopted."
[Public] Firistan says, "Likely because of rasha's influence."
[Public] Malatan says, "Also I worked there!"
[Public] Evius says, "They are CHimerans. They take anybody"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Anyway. I'm going to start wrapping this up unless people have burning questions about the Hydra."
[Public] Fiero says, "Well they have a large mono population themselves."
[Public] Joey says, "What's Belik's favourite colour?"
[Public] Joey says, "Does Amenik have a girlfriend?"
[Public] Gondarus laughs.
[Public] Joey hides.
[Public] Professor Amber says, "Chartreuse."
[Public] Terodor says, "What about single parent families?"
[Public] Evius says, "I would figure blood red"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "So either way I'm wrapping it up. :)"
[Public] Gondarus says, "Thanks Amber, Joey, Ginny and the Band!"
[Public] Professor Amber mavs. But you get the point!
[Public] Joey bows.
[Public] Firistan says, "Thanks all!"
[Public] Okatik says, "Thanks for all the time you've been putting into these, Amber. I know you'll be glad for a once per week theme but these have been really informative."
[Public] Selia doesn't answer Joey's second question, even though she knows. :)
[Public] Terodor says, "hey, what about my question?"
[Public] Joey says, "Which one?"
[Public] Selia says, "It's nearly impossible for a single person to adopt, Terodor."
[Public] Galanthis says, "Thanks Amber.."
[Public] Terodor is asking about single parent families though, not adopting
[Public] Selia says, "Firans have this whole big 'it takes a man and a woman' thing going on. :)"
[Public] Joey says, "Single parent homes are only acceptable in the case of death or some other extreme example, I'd think."
[Public] Fiero says, "I'd think especially the monos"
[Public] Gondarus was hoping for a Firan gay adoption, Selia.
[Public] Okatik says, "We have the Eagles."
[Public] Gondarus snickers.
[Public] Joey flees.
[Public] Terodor nods at Joey. gotcha
[Public] Professor Amber thinks, given the state of Firan tech, most single parent families aren't going to have /time/ to raise a kid.
[Public] Malatan nods at Amber.
[Public] Selia says, "Thanks for hosting things, Amber."
[Public] Professor Amber says, "We have no vacuum cleaners. No TV to keep the kids out of your hair. Etc. :)"
[Public] Professor Amber says, "No problem. I am the tired now. :)"
[Public] Terodor nods
[Public] Nodin says, "aww...no Tv? ;P"
[Public] Gondarus says, "Our TVs consist of poking peep holes into interesting people's homes. :)"
[Public] Professor Amber snickers.
